Whats up CT?

[Jihnyny 1633]

Application apps are to easy.

Been looking through applications recently, playing lotc and noticing some very very, interesting new players.

Holding poor roleplay, poor communication, and to be honest, alot of them clearly being underage, or not mature enough for this server. 
the application process has been always easy, imo. (Me first joining the server when i was around 9 iirc.) but now even a 5 year old could get in. I understand the idea behind letting poor roleplayers or inexperienced roleplayers to join the server, but, without community team helping them, it is a horrible pain in the ass for players to interact with them. 
 

my ideas?

make new player tag last longer.

make the applications harder.

get more ct members and put actual focus in helping new players.

accept my ct application

Also put the goddam tutorial island warp somewhere better.

 

gimme your thoughts.

[Astrophysical 848]

Remember when CT got in contact with new players constantly rather than sit on people's heads? Yea...

[Mannamannaa 1575]

I would like to give my own input as long as staff members are willing to have a conversation. If there is a preference of stomping on the playerbases voices when they express concern, on the other hand, I can be DM'ed on my linked Discord.

[Unwillingly 8835]

1 hour ago, Jihnyny said:

Holding poor roleplay

stop I am so tired of this elitist take that new players need to be good at roleplay to join the server

 

that's what lotc is. we should be willing to help people improve and develop their writing skills. it's how literally all of us improved and new players shouldn't be gatekept from the server because they aren't as good a writer as you are

[rukio 8199]

Unironically the application needs to be harder. It helps with retention when they have to put a thought into their application. 

[Air 554]

i agree. sure, allowing more inexperienced roleplayers into the server more frequently is good for server numbers (i think), but just letting them run rampant and not helping them at all is a pain for current players.

 

a recent example of a new and clearly inexperienced player being let in and allowed to run amok would be drock. at present he is banned, however, it was very clear that he had no understanding of what powergaming was or how to not do it and at first seemed to completely ignore the attempts that i along with others made to explain this to him. since he was causing trouble in the city i was in and broke multiple laws along with just not being willing to allow us to help in oocly improve, i made a creq to get a community team member to try and help him out. the rp came to a point where he would mechanically run away and come back rather than face irp consequence of trying to kill another new player, so in accordance to the laws we executed him in private. the ct member that picked up the req, who i will not name, prioritized the fact that we were killing him over helping him improve his behavior oocly and in rp (to my knowledge). eventually, the ct member and someone else that was involved got into a vc to talk about the situation. we still went through with killing him in roleplay and were sure to explain that he did not have to pk his character. however, from this point it did not seem that he was given the aid i hoped the ct member would've administered to him (at least from my own perspective) as drock continued to display similar problems he'd shown before (with minor improvements). yet, he still got upset about things that happened in character oocly and continued to return to the city to engage in conflict with the other new player in the following days.

 

i apologize if that came off as ranty but the point to that long-winded story was to say that the ct should help the inexperienced players more than just show them to a community and hope the players there can help the player improve. 

 

3 minutes ago, rukio said:

It helps with retention when they have to put a thought into their application. 

this is a good point as well

[Mannamannaa 1575]

26 minutes ago, Unwillingly said:

stop I am so tired of this elitist take that new players need to be good at roleplay to join the server

 

that's what lotc is. we should be willing to help people improve and develop their writing skills. it's how literally all of us improved and new players shouldn't be gatekept from the server because they aren't as good a writer as you are

Unfortunately, this becomes an issue when those players, staff members, and systems meant to teach such new players fail to do so, as I personally experienced today. I as a player should not have to fear my persona being (Mechanically downed randomly) with no emoting beforehand within my own racial capital by anyone, regardless of if they have a pink tag or not. I should trust in the quite reasonable assumption that the vetting process will remove those bad actors, underage persons, etc; and also teach individuals inexperienced with roleplay simple rules such as:

This is not a PvP server, it is an RP server.

The basics of emoting vs OOC chat channels.

The definition of powergaming and examples thereof.

The Basics of CRP including that both players must agree to roll beforehand for Roll CRP to be viable.

The basic differences between races on the server RP wise.

The courtesy of not spamming tiny emotes to prevent another from responding.

The basics of Actions in CRP.

Et Cetera.

The situation had developed to where those participating had to call a mod no fewer than 3 times, not to mention ask about the age of the new player mentioned with concerns over minimum age and vocabulary/maturity. While this is merely a standalone incident, it goes to show there is a greater concern to be had over the minimum qualifications for an application to be accepted, and yet More concern over resources for new players. If needed I have chat logs and Screenshots.

This is not a case of Inexperienced RP, or elitism, or gatekeeping. It is one about the minimum quality of interactions on this server as a whole and the need for some level of standards and accountability over who gets whitelisted.

[Jihnyny 1633]

34 minutes ago, Unwillingly said:

stop I am so tired of this elitist take that new players need to be good at roleplay to join the server

 

that's what lotc is. we should be willing to help people improve and develop their writing skills. it's how literally all of us improved and new players shouldn't be gatekept from the server because they aren't as good a writer as you are

There still should be a standard to uphold. I dont care if you type bad, have bad grammar. I care if you actually care about your roleplay. Emoting horrible one liners, and doing so right after the other is stupid and it presents itself in the application. (Which always gets accepted either way.)
The common misconception is, 

new players are being seen as little children that have no goddam brain. But thats not the truth, new players have a brain and have the ability to use it. And they should be treated this way. Its not ‚elitist’ to expect a person to know how to form a sentence and roleplay with one another. Even if they run into a populated hub they would catch on how people roleplay. Theres no excuse lol. 

Quote

i agree. sure, allowing more inexperienced roleplayers into the server more frequently is good for server numbers (i think), but just letting them run rampant and not helping them at all is a pain for current players.

 

a recent example of a new and clearly inexperienced player being let in and allowed to run amok would be drock. at present he is banned, however, it was very clear that he had no understanding of what powergaming was or how to not do it and at first seemed to completely ignore the attempts that i along with others made to explain this to him. since he was causing trouble in the city i was in and broke multiple laws along with just not being willing to allow us to help in oocly improve, i made a creq to get a community team member to try and help him out. the rp came to a point where he would mechanically run away and come back rather than face irp consequence of trying to kill another new player, so in accordance to the laws we executed him in private. the ct member that picked up the req, who i will not name, prioritized the fact that we were killing him over helping him improve his behavior oocly and in rp (to my knowledge). eventually, the ct member and someone else that was involved got into a vc to talk about the situation. we still went through with killing him in roleplay and were sure to explain that he did not have to pk his character. however, from this point it did not seem that he was given the aid i hoped the ct member would've administered to him (at least from my own perspective) as drock continued to display similar problems he'd shown before (with minor improvements). yet, he still got upset about things that happened in character oocly and continued to return to the city to engage in conflict with the other new player in the following days.

 

i apologize if that came off as ranty but the point to that long-winded story was to say that the ct should help the inexperienced players more than just show them to a community and hope the players there can help the player improve. 

Ive seen this happen way to often. So many times CT appear, give a tip for five minutes and then let the new player run free with no problem. Theres red flags, clear ones in most applications, and or with an interaction of the player themselves. I remember when ct application team helped out new players after they got accepted. Now all i see ct doing is accepted /creq where is active or being afk. (Except roleplaying ofc and the media team)

[Unwillingly 8835]

1 hour ago, Mannamannaa said:

Unfortunately, this becomes an issue when those players, staff members, and systems meant to teach such new players fail to do so, as I personally experienced today. I as a player should not have to fear my persona being (Mechanically downed randomly) with no emoting beforehand within my own racial capital by anyone, regardless of if they have a pink tag or not.

none of these speak of one's ability to write though. being subpar at writing doesn't correlate to you being pugsied by a player who just doesn't understand how the mechanics of RP itself work. and stop overexaggerating about your fear of being downed by a pinktag like you won't just get immediately revived and get your stuff back from a mod and the new player either learns from the mistake or gets kicked
 

52 minutes ago, Jihnyny said:

There still should be a standard to uphold. I dont care if you type bad, have bad grammar. I care if you actually care about your roleplay. Emoting horrible one liners, and doing so right after the other is stupid and it presents itself in the application. (Which always gets accepted either way.)

"I don't care if you have bad grammar or writing" but immediately follows up with saying that you don't want to see "horrible one-liners"

you can't talk about horrible one-liners and poor emoters and not wanting to let bad roleplayers into the server and say it's not elitist, and furthermore justify it with "but standards" what standards? the standard of being the server that denies a 14 y/o boy with dyslexia because they aren't good enough at writing? or literally any kid who wants to roleplay? who are we trying to impress here? and i don't even know where you actually stand on this because your entire response has pivoted between "no bad roleplayers on the server" and "I don't care about bad roleplayers"

people can be bad at writing and still be passionate about the server and the RP they do. that's what 50% of the server's playerbase is. if people who were bad at writing didn't care about the server, then lotc wouldn't still have the playerbase it does. it'd have a lot less players than it does now and being a subpar RPer speaks nothing of one's actual enjoyment of it or LOTC as a hobby

 

52 minutes ago, Jihnyny said:

Its not ‚elitist’ to expect a person to know how to form a sentence and roleplay with one another.

in the context of lotc, where literally every single player started out not knowing the very basics of RP, yes, it is. you were bad at writing at one point too. i was bad at writing. we learn from roleplaying with other people. if you actually have an interest in helping new players, your first response should be to allow them into an environment where they're exposed to more experienced writers, not bar them from joining because they aren't good enough for your "standards" 
 

52 minutes ago, Jihnyny said:

Even if they run into a populated hub they would catch on how people roleplay.

either you're bad at articulating what you mean or you went in a circle because this is exactly what I was saying but it's something you quoted in contention

[ShvdwWzrdMnyGvng 2251]

no 👍

[Jihnyny 1633]

@Unwillinglyi dont think you understand my point. there is a difference in typing with no care or, maturity during the roleplay.

most players these days dont even have to read the rules and still be accepted they can just copy paste powergaming and metagaming definition and simply get in. Im all for letting passionate but bad players in. But not now. Not when ct dont give two shits about them and they run wild. As a child joining lotc at around 9 was a pain, i still remember it. But seeing others roleplay, i learned and got better, because i had an actual brain and was interested in the roleplay. And this interest was rewarded with actual help. Most of the applications are trying to be anime protagonistic heroes, and even though that is the stereotype, it is common due to CT not giving two shits. 
 

i do care about new players, hence why i applied to CT to help them. Accept applicants, and help them once accepted. Not a simple run through shit, ct should be there for them until the loss of their pink tag atleast. (Which is a pretty short time imo.)

 

my own spellings and grammar arent the best, english is not my first language. So i do feel for dyslexic people (in some way) and people who are not the best with english, but, you should have a basic understanding of the english language, and as a mature enough adult, be able to form those sentences, instead of random one liners that are quick, short, and clearly effortless. 
I have never seen a dyslexic player yet, which had actual trouble with roleplay. All the dyslexic players i met have had great standards for roleplay new or not. So i see it as no excuse to show a lower standard.

 

[Unwillingly 8835]

 

1 hour ago, Jihnyny said:

But seeing others roleplay, i learned and got better, because i had an actual brain and was interested in the roleplay. And this interest was rewarded with actual help.

yes im glad this is something we agree on. so why continue to advocate the idea that we shouldn't be letting applicants in who are subpar RPers?

 

1 hour ago, Jihnyny said:

Most of the applications are trying to be anime protagonistic heroes

it's this superiority complex over new players that I hate, because we have literally all been this way at some point (if you say you havent you are lying). even well-established and veteran players, because it's really really challenging not to fall into this mindset when everything you do happens in YOUR point of view (and there's nothing inherently even wrong with this, let alone should it be used as a reason to dunk on new players, as long as it doesn't obstruct the RP or narrative of others)
 

1 hour ago, Jihnyny said:

and as a mature enough adult, be able to form those sentences, instead of random one liners that are quick, short, and clearly effortless. 

not everything needs to be a 40 line novella. people should be able to write the way they want instead of cater to YOUR ideal level of RP. if you don't like it, don't RP with new players, because the precedent you're setting is that new players should just be able to write multi-lined emotes on their first day of joining

like I literally agree with mostly everything in this post except this idea that new players who are bad RPers are inherently bad for the server and shouldn't be accepted. but you keep buckling down on this and its why im so confused as to where you actually stand because I'm reading two different things when you dunk on new players for having bad emotes vs concurring with the idea that new players should gain experience by being around other established players

I don't know if there's some language barrier here but it really feels like you should be more worried about specifying what it is the CT can do to help make understanding certain functions of the server easier to applicants instead of shitting on new players for what are objectively harmless and benign things like emote length and emote quality??

[AnimeWolf0080 1362]

I agree with your statement, we do need to make applications a little more hearty. Over my four years on lotc, I’ve done my best to help new players. Give pointers where I can and check up on them at least 3-4 months into their time on the server. One of my good friends was a player I accepted but because the server wasn’t his cup of tea. He left, still texting nearly every other day just to check in on each other. Not the point of this I know.

It was an executive decision to make the applications easier. Due to how many people were getting denied for bad applications.
How the old application system worked was, you needed a good Metagaming and Powergaming definition. At least one lore reference, 6 sentences. No metagaming/powergaming (so no magic or cutting off 50 heads at once) in your bio/backstory. Nothing against server rules. A lightly detailed physical description. At least hight, weight, hair & eye color nothing personality wise in this part of the app. If you wanted to share what your clothing was even better. Personality traits/quirks. At least one good and bad trait, and nothing physical.
Your skin needed to be up to lotc code, match your race and physical description.

Your persona had to be 18+ and your roleplay scenario had to at least have one set piece of dialogue and one action in 3rd person. 

If you got put on pending you had 24 hours to fix your application unless given more time. Then it was denied.
If you hit 6 or more of these marks your application was denied. So was the muffins way.

The only other way you could get denied was if you had some unsavory things not fit for the server. I’ll let your imaginations go wild with that one.

I know I always do/will do my best to reach out even if they are denied/pending/accepted to get them the best advice I can give. If I can't, I'll try to find someone who can. (insert other staff team or player here) 

There was also the rare “this is too hard, can you just outright deny me.”

 

Onto the new way of applications 

You need to share how you would avoid powergaming in roleplay, and how does metagaming disrupt fair roleplay. Now your persona can be below the age of 18 in rare cases. Like you have a friend coming onto the server to play your child, but we need proof. A screenshot or a conversation will do. What is your Physical Description. Now your Roleplay scenario & backstory are together, I came up with the criteria on this part as these new changes were implemented very quickly. Basically the same thing, You need to have at least 6 sentences. Until further notice you don’t need a lore reference. (I’m still crying over that one) Again no power/metagaming (can’t know magic. Or be a lost princess ect, unless you're coming onto the server to play a persona given to you). If your application actions are in first person. We’ll let it slide so long we give them a heads up. “Hey server culture says it’s a 3rd person action here!”. Even if your application has something like “I am a duke of Heanse and xyz” and nothing else is wrong with you app. We’ll accept you and just say “Hello, your app was really good, but you can’t claim to be a duke. If you want to be a duke you’ll have to do the rp for it. If you need help getting started let me know!” and so on. Your skin needs to be server appropriate.

Now there are no more 6 strikes and your out. Some ct still might do this but we are trying not to do that anymore, if you are put on pending you’ll have 48 hours. Unless given more time. 

After the 48+ hours you’ll be auto denied, anything that goes against the tos will get you denied. Then again the very rare “deny me, this is to hard” (I should also mention that if your application was plagiarized you’ll be denied, this goes with the old app ways too)

As for when new players come onto the server, unless they ask for help. We can’t help them. Anytime I see a ticket saying ‘I need help’ I pick it up as soon as I can. Any time I get a message, I get to it as soon as I can. If they need me to hop into a vc, I’ll ask a friend to sit in the lotc vc or a group call vc with me to try and explain things. Sometimes I talk a little fast, so they are the person to slow down what I just said if needed. I do my best to explain the rules. “Maybe don’t run away from roleplay unless you emote about it first” ect.
I have a very detailed monk guidance sheet that the whole of ct should have access to. Chat command, how to use the bank/soul stone. What nodes are, if they want the longer version of the guide that is also available to them. How to use /persona, what soul binds and edit tokens are. How to make a ticket, how to show off/hand off items to players. Take them to where they want to go after sharing with them what places have people. So we can get them to rp as fast as we can.
After I close the ticket and if I have time (Sometimes these tickets can take up to 3 hours, the longest one I had was 8 hours. I had to hand off the ticket at least 3 times to other members of the team. This was in 2020) I’ll watch them for a little bit, if it looks like they are doing good. I’ll let them go on their merry way. If it looks like they are having a hard time I’ll try to hold their hand a little bit to help. 

I know not all Ct members do this, but it’s something I try to do.

Personally I feel like once we can have the lore reference back applications will start to go up in quality and so will the player’s roleplay.

[JoshBright 2061]

2 hours ago, AnimeWolf0080 said:

As for when new players come onto the server, unless they ask for help. We can’t help them.

I can confirm this. 

 

 

Also to elaborate more: CT are not allowed to rp on their monks, under threat of removal unless a new player makes a Creq requesting help 

 

[Xarkly 10770]

2 hours ago, AnimeWolf0080 said:

 

As for when new players come onto the server, unless they ask for help. We can’t help them.

 literally what

 

Isnt this one of the main points of.CT