the case for banning homophobia

[Markisstreaming 521]

10 hours ago, Jentos said:

what if I want to rp as an ultra conservative Hungarian politician who claims to hate gays but fucks elven twinks (@Onnensr) behind closed doors

As a Hungarian I love this

[Werew0lf 12024]

I got called homophobic because I denied someone’s story team req. 

 

Please help me. 

[argonian 12840]

51 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

 

Honestly I think this should just be the talking point of the meeting Llir is having as nobody could put this any better.

 

Regardless of if LotC is an escapism or not for players, homophobia really is an unnecessary part of roleplay with no real positive. Elf x Human racism is far more productive and entertaining roleplay with productive outcomes (i.e. banished from Haelun'or for not being pure, so you go on a quest to show your purity, or become good enough known as an outsider race to be accepted by those inside), homophobia and other similar prejs don't have any sort of route, it's "ew you're gay get out" or "ew ur gay let's just ******* execute you" neither of which is productive or gives you anything in roleplay, other than exiled from a community.

 

tldr; Dislike elves and make them cut their ears again, whitewash orcs for being against the Horde and make humans do tests of faith that don't involve asking them if they want to 'sodomise a man'.

you're only proving how ridiculous it is. high elves are literally allowed to call dark elves the n-word and LARP as nazis (it's ok though; they accept uncle toms?), but if canonism doesn't have any gay genderfluid half-orc saints, the mods NEED to intervene.

 

Also humans are also punished by staff for anti-elf racism. i recall huge whining and a few bans over it in savoy and it hasn't really been attempted since.

 

such a ridiculous double standard. and most of the people commenting LARPing that they just want the canonist church to institute same-sex marriage are lying through their teeth in that they actually want it to cease to exist entirely. you can see it through the backhanded insults (and downright smears) and lamentations that it controls human culture itt.

 

So let's be honest about the desired outcome here: 21st century irreligiosity, 21st century standards on human rights/moral norms, but no you cannot use 14th century cannons how dare you (unless it's powered by magic)

 

would love to hear thoughts from someone itt who has a vision for the type of setting they think this server should be that doesn't boil down to "discard all human culture and lore, and rp like my druid friends instead". it's exactly that attitude that allows you guys to give high elves a free pass here and even celebrate it when they goose-step, while any rp bigotry among humans (be it based on a real one, or anti-magic etc) is condemned. there was even a guy on here the other day talking about how humans were oocly horrible people for not accepting darkstalkers lmaooo

[satinkira 5924]

1 hour ago, argonian said:

you're only proving how ridiculous it is. high elves are literally allowed to call dark elves the n-word and LARP as nazis (it's ok though; they accept uncle toms?), but if canonism doesn't have any gay genderfluid half-orc saints, the mods NEED to intervene.

 

Also humans are also punished by staff for anti-elf racism. i recall huge whining and a few bans over it in savoy and it hasn't really been attempted since.

 

such a ridiculous double standard. and most of the people commenting LARPing that they just want the canonist church to institute same-sex marriage are lying through their teeth in that they actually want it to cease to exist entirely. you can see it through the backhanded insults (and downright smears) and lamentations that it controls human culture itt.

 

So let's be honest about the desired outcome here: 21st century irreligiosity, 21st century standards on human rights/moral norms, but no you cannot use 14th century cannons how dare you (unless it's powered by magic)

 

would love to hear thoughts from someone itt who has a vision for the type of setting they think this server should be that doesn't boil down to "discard all human culture and lore, and rp like my druid friends instead". it's exactly that attitude that allows you guys to give high elves a free pass here and even celebrate it when they goose-step, while any rp bigotry among humans (be it based on a real one, or anti-magic etc) is condemned. there was even a guy on here the other day talking about how humans were oocly horrible people for not accepting darkstalkers lmaooo

 

high elves aren't allowed to call dark elves the n-word and no-one is looking to introduce gay genderfluid half-orc saints into canonism; I understand the point of hyperbole but you're being ridiculous. imo your point about wanting to introduce 21st century standards on human rights/moral norms is also bullshit lmfao; I replied to a status update abt this recently but the really basic points about the sanctity of life, legal rights, religious freedoms, are all trampled into the mud by both elves and humans and its disingenuous to suggest that removing irl-based prejudice is going to lead to a woke-ification of lotc. gritty dark fantasy medieval groups like necros play perfectly satisfactory villains and embrace the medieval and fantastical role without homophobia. 

as for wanting to remove the canonist church, that isn't my aim and it isn't something I support

on the matter of the vision for the server - it's a generally accepted fact that lotc has no set niche and that it basically depends where you go, which is fine because different communities roleplay differently. canonism and medieval european larp has its place, as druidism has its place, as spooks have their place. 

[Amayonnaise 1535]

1 hour ago, argonian said:

high elves are literally allowed to call dark elves the n-word and LARP as nazis (it's ok though; they accept uncle toms?)

 

Where is this coming from? I was part of Haelunor from the mid to end of last map through to the start of this map, and didn't once see any sort of RP regarding dark elves or those sorts of slurs both IRP and in the Discord chats I had access to. If anything, Helves have more of an issue with Wood Elves due to how nature-loving and grubby they perceive them to be. If you have genuine proof/evidence of this taking place, it is worthwhile reporting because I highly doubt it would get brushed off. I'm not going to outright disbelieve you, but I would absolutely take care when throwing accusations like that out.

 

1 hour ago, argonian said:

but if canonism doesn't have any gay genderfluid half-orc saints, the mods NEED to intervene.

 

Absolutely wild exaggeration of what is being requested.

 

1 hour ago, argonian said:

So let's be honest about the desired outcome here: 21st century irreligiosity, 21st century standards on human rights/moral norms, but no you cannot use 14th century cannons how dare you (unless it's powered by magic)

 

Final take - This is a medieval fantasy server in which we literally publish our own lore and create our own magics. Why can't we create our own culture and version of history? Why must we follow history so accurately that we are forced to have a Canonist religion unaccepting of same-sex marriages etc.? This is literally a fantasy server, be more creative.

In my last comment on a thread regarding this topic, I made the argument that there are other nations you can RP in, and a line has to be drawn on how far you can go w/ homophobia etc. This thread has altered that opinion. I have to agree with the vast majority - if it is affecting and troubling players to that extent, while giving the 'attackers' some strange sense of euphoria to bully or even just troll another player, then remove it. Characters can be uncomfortable with the idea, sure. It'd be the same as a lesbian feeling uncomfortable with a straight male trying to romance her in some form. But genuine prejudice and attacks are unnecessary.

I don't understand how two gay elves can walk into a human city like Haense and no one bats an eye because "it's the elven way to do things", but they can't fathom two humans sharing a similar love.

Also - I am sorry for picking apart only your comment. I read through snippets here and there, but your comment summarised a lot of what was being said on your side of the debate. My response on that final quote is directed at everyone, not solely you.

[Franczhiz 4053]

3 minutes ago, satinkira said:

high elves aren't allowed to call dark elves the n-word

 

Don't think you have heard of the acid pits used by elves to kill personas who are not of pureblood... seems oddly familiar. 

[satinkira 5924]

Just now, Franczhiz said:

 

Don't think you have heard of the acid pits used by elves to kill personas who are not of pureblood... seems oddly familiar.

 

I in fact have heard of that; I have also been told that the last time they were used was just after Arcas after staff said it wasn't allowed

[Amayonnaise 1535]

2 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

Don't think you have heard of the acid pits used by elves to kill personas who are not of pureblood... seems oddly familiar.

 

As far as I am aware, the current rendition of high elves under Samler doesn't do this very often. They don't like producing pointless RP that wastes someones time, unless the target is quite literally attempting to assassinate or otherwise excessively harm/kill their citizens etc.

[Franczhiz 4053]

14 minutes ago, Amayonnaise said:

Final take - This is a medieval fantasy server in which we literally publish our own lore and create our own magics. Why can't we create our own culture and version of history? Why must we follow history so accurately that we are forced to have a Canonist religion unaccepting of same-sex marriages etc.? This is literally a fantasy server, be more creative.

 

Like my good friend @Enlightenmentsaid; make your own sect from Canondom that does tolerate what you are fighting for and you're free to larp western modern/progressive and tolerant protestantism (this is about the parts of protestantism that legalized homosexuality). Just see how long it will endure IRP and there is no need to force changes down the throats of people who want to keep human lore intact by the use of OOC posts like this to try and make anything against homosexuals bannable.

 

To be honest, if such effort was being made irl to fight for the rights of the LGBTQ perhaps it would've gotten somewhere. But at this point its just fighting for a bunch of religious legislation on a mineman server which is of no use to the irl rights of your community at all.

[Amayonnaise 1535]

7 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

But at this point its just fighting for a bunch of religious legislation on a mineman server which is of no use to the irl rights of your community at all.

 

LGBTQ+ rights shouldn't have anything to do with religion at all. Why are laws and religious doctrines permitted to dictate accepted sexualities? Shit is wack.

Canonism is far more than getting salty at two dudes kissing. You have Holy Scrolls, Saints, all sorts of other very neat shit. I've never gotten into Canonism on this server, and I don't know how much it replicates or is similar to IRL religions, but it always appeared to be somewhat creative in its own form. Why does sexuality have to be part of it at all? You guys are spending too much time both IRP and OOC worrying about what goes on behind closed doors, and yet the elves are the weird ones :/

[Franczhiz 4053]

10 minutes ago, Amayonnaise said:

LGBTQ+ rights shouldn't have anything to do with religion at all. Why are laws and religious doctrines permitted to dictate accepted sexualities? Shit is wack.

 

Funny how you meant this for Canondom only but simultaneaously proved my point about people of the LGBTQ disrespecting religion and its doctrines.

[Amayonnaise 1535]

3 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

Funny how you meant this for Canondom only but simultaneaously proved my point about people of the LGBTQ disrespecting religion and its doctrines.

 

I'm actually reeling that you're not understanding my point. Why does your fantasy religion, which you can shape and mould in any way you would like it to, care so much about characters' sexuality and private affairs?

Mind your own gd business my brother. You're wasting hours of your day concerning yourself with romance rp. Stop minimising your religion to sexuality and grow it beyond such minor mortal affairs.

[satinkira 5924]

5 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

 

Funny how you meant this for Canondom only but simultaneaously proved my point about people of the LGBTQ disrespecting religion and its doctrines.

 

people being LGBTQ and disrespecting religion is by no means synonymous and should not be assumed to be such

[Franczhiz 4053]

1 minute ago, satinkira said:

people being LGBTQ and disrespecting religion is by no means synonymous and should not be assumed to be such

 

19 minutes ago, Amayonnaise said:

Shit is wack.

 

This seems like disrespect, although I do not know whether @Amayonnaisetried to make an irl comparison to religion and its doctrines but it certainly seems disrespectful if the aforementioned was the case.

[satinkira 5924]

1 minute ago, Franczhiz said:

 

 

This seems like disrespect, although I do not know whether @Amayonnaisetried to make an irl comparison to religion and its doctrines but it certainly seems disrespectful if the aforementioned was the case.

 

to be sure, it was rude (I don't disagree with her main point though minus the disrespect), but I'm instead making a point about unhelpful generalisations of all LGBTQ ppls as being disrespectful of reilgions. I do accept that the same could be said of the reverse, which is why I clarified in the main post that I accept that not all canonists are homophobic