burntgoosebuns 282 Share Posted March 9 Probably way too late but I was rewatching the Lord of the Rings trilogy and LOTC started living rent free in my head. Specifically, when my character and a bunch of others were killed off in the Voidal Hollow in Almaris. I stopped playing after my character died, as I'm sure a few people know. I believe a few others did as well, though I can only name one - @booklight12 "But it was a PK zone! You knew what you were getting into!" True-ish. The Hollow itself, afaik, wasn't a PK zone. The crater in the middle - yeah, that definitely was. But I never chose to go into it. I don't think *anyone* that ended up in the crater CHOSE to go into it. I'm looking for the chat logs somewhere in my private Discord of miscellaneous stuff to see if I can find the exact message, but what happened was that an ST that was overseeing our expedition into the Hollow had warned us a few times that, "Hey, this crater is a PK zone," and I was well aware of that. But I wasn't actually going into the zone. None of us were. We were on the edge, 'tempting fate' I suppose. Suddenly a message appears in chat that "The ledge you are all standing on gives out, and you all slide into the crater." Into the PK zone. Forced into it by the ST. I don't think I care that my character is dead anymore. I do care about essentially being forced into a PK zone instead of choosing to go into it, but the character death is something I'm over. I'm definitely not over the fact that losing the character also killed any and all ambition I had to play anymore, but that's life. Everyone isn't 'over' something. But I don't think this post is about me. I'm making it because I feel that booklight12 was robbed. As far as I know, he's been playing since the beginning. His elf character was like 7+ ft tall, way over the limit that the rules nowadays state. But that's because his character was old. Years old. Years and years of playing and having fun only to join a few of us on an 'exploration' quest and to be pushed into the crater by an ST. None of us, at least not myself or booklight12, wanted to go in the crater.As I said before, probably way too late to make a post like this, but I'm making it now so that future STs might not make this same mistake. If you're dabbling with killing characters permanently - you've got to let it be the player's choices that land them in the situation. I think it's unfair to take that away from them, regardless of if they're 'testing' you in some way, such as standing on the edge of a death crater. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that roleplay is supposed to be about having fun. What's fun about falling into a PK zone with no warning or choice in the matter? Zero warning at all that the ledge was going to give out. Just 'oops there it goes, you all slide in.' This is the post I'm referencing, by the way: https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/212090-event-the-abyss-gazes-back/?tab=comments#comment-1910155 Have a good one everyone. 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor_Fellow 812 Share Posted March 9 You shouldn't enjoy the rewards of an event if you aren't willing to sacrifice something for a good narrative. I'm not saying there aren't ST members who enjoy killing for killing's sake, because they do exist, but there are way too many players who blindly go into events and stumble through them without any preparation or thought because they know that if they mess up IC, they can just SS to the CT and pretend nothing ever happened. 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam33497 2793 Share Posted March 9 @Airthoughts? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkly 12618 Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, Poor_Fellow said: You shouldn't enjoy the rewards of an event if you aren't willing to sacrifice something for a good narrative. I'm not saying there aren't ST members who enjoy killing for killing's sake, because they do exist, but there are way too many players who blindly go into events and stumble through them without any preparation or thought because they know that if they mess up IC, they can just SS to the CT and pretend nothing ever happened. The suggestion that a good narrative is dependent on preparation or thought though is silly - this obviously isn't the case, and PK'ing is absolutely far from the counterweight. Stupidity doesn't need to be punished in the most extreme way to enforce a semblance of balance or consequence in your eventline. I have always thought PKs are a major crutch in that regard -- some of the most impactful eventlines on this server have not been PK-claused, and still collected more PKs than their PK-clause counterparts because they built a meaningful connection with the participants. 27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimnyaQuorum 1036 Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, Poor_Fellow said: You shouldn't enjoy the rewards of an event if you aren't willing to sacrifice something for a good narrative. I'm not saying there aren't ST members who enjoy killing for killing's sake, because they do exist, but there are way too many players who blindly go into events and stumble through them without any preparation or thought because they know that if they mess up IC, they can just SS to the CT and pretend nothing ever happened. I think there's a large difference between this - which implies someone willingly enters a PK zone and takes the risk - and what the post actually says where they had no warning or indication they were about to be otherwise forced into the PK zone. Sure, if you want high reward there's high risk, but that's not what's being said here at all. What's being said is you should never be forced into a PK Zone. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor_Fellow 812 Share Posted March 9 10 minutes ago, Xarkly said: The suggestion that a good narrative is dependent on preparation or thought though is silly I didn't suggest this, but sure. I said players often die in events because they go into them without any preparation. The ST are in their right to enforce PK clauses to combat this, although there are ST who kill players in events for no reason (See Aesopian and the September Prince, or whatever it was called). That said, I do agree that the ST in charge of this event should have made sure the players knew the edge of the crater wasn't stable before the players stepped on it. Playing any collaborative roleplaying game without being willing to risk death is lame. I understand there's a reason why death is taken so lightly on the server and why PKs aren't obligatory for the most part (goons and murderhobos with no regard for anyone's life IC), but being so distraught by your character's death that you leave the server is not healthy. Stop enabling this self-insert behavior. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingDingo 16990 Popular Post Share Posted March 9 >don’t walk into this area it is very dangerous and you will die >walks into area i remember having to watch this event to ensure that people weren’t being too crazy on the ST side. It was falling and staying and fighting back, it was not they fell into an area and were killed in one emote. There was ample time to get out, ample time to run, yet they all continued in this area. people were very well aware the hollow was a no-go zone, especially in the blast zone. To linger and fight things in the crater after falling is probably what led to the deaths, not immediately being vaporised 31 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug 1885 Share Posted March 9 with the lack of consequences in the actual RP world, events having the risk of PK feels appropriate. i don't know the specifics of this instance, but people should expect consequences when tempting fate and playing around dangerous circumstances in rp (especially with warnings that you acknowledge you guys had). also, if someone's interest in the server hinges on keeping their old character or not, maybe a dynamic rp world isn't for them. unhealthy character attachment leads to bad rp and if anything, something like this should be a signal to turn a new leaf. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengoth 2883 Share Posted March 9 idk seems like there was more than ample warning that was disregarded 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkly 12618 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Poor_Fellow said: I didn't suggest this, but sure. I said players often die in events because they go into them without any preparation. The ST are in their right to enforce PK clauses to combat this, although there are ST who kill players in events for no reason (See Aesopian and the September Prince, or whatever it was called). That said, I do agree that the ST in charge of this event should have made sure the players knew the edge of the crater wasn't stable before the players stepped on it. Playing any collaborative roleplaying game without being willing to risk death is lame. I understand there's a reason why death is taken so lightly on the server and why PKs aren't obligatory for the most part (goons and murderhobos with no regard for anyone's life IC), but being so distraught by your character's death that you leave the server is not healthy. Stop enabling this self-insert behavior. I'm not disagreeing that consequence is an element of good storytelling - what I'm disagreeing with is PK clauses as a crutch. It's putting the cart before the horse. People PK in events because it forms such a substantial part of their character's journey that they're willing to end that journey through the event (or, as it happens, it coincides with them planning to PK the character anyway). Events build this relationship through quality narrative engagement, which takes investment and dedication. It is not achieved by slapping a "PK clause" on the event. I'd be fairly confident that you can point to more large scale eventlines and wars with a far higher PK count than a PK clause event ever has, because it's just not how you build that degree of narrative significance to a character. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntgoosebuns 282 Author Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, ScreamingDingo said: >don’t walk into this area it is very dangerous and you will die >walks into area i remember having to watch this event to ensure that people weren’t being too crazy on the ST side. It was falling and staying and fighting back, it was not they fell into an area and were killed in one emote. There was ample time to get out, ample time to run, yet they all continued in this area. people were very well aware the hollow was a no-go zone, especially in the blast zone. To linger and fight things in the crater after falling is probably what led to the deaths, not immediately being vaporised The one thing I remember is that the ST only said "Hey, this is a PK zone." Never "It is very dangerous and you will die." To their credit they mentioned it was a PK zone two or three times, which in hindsight perhaps should have been enough warning but was evidently not. And I assume people lingered and fought things because one of the emotes by ST mentioned the surface of the cliff being slippery/not climbable/find another way out/etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengoth 2883 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 21 minutes ago, burntgoosebuns said: The one thing I remember is that the ST only said "Hey, this is a PK zone." Never "It is very dangerous and you will die." To their credit they mentioned it was a PK zone two or three times, which in hindsight perhaps should have been enough warning but was evidently not. And I assume people lingered and fought things because one of the emotes by ST mentioned the surface of the cliff being slippery/not climbable/find another way out/etc. It clearly was enough warning. Saying it evidently wasn't just means the players partaking disregarded the warnings. The notion of it being a PK zone means that there is an inherent risk that someone can/will die. Just because you/others assumed you wouldn't be the ones to die doesn't make that a fault of the staff. Gotta take accountability for your own participation in it. Having regrets for not taking the staff seriously doesn't mean they're mishandling a PK zone, by partaking in the event you took on that risk. @Xarklyby partaking in a PK event a player is opening them up to that risk of an unplanned PK. Some of the most significant events in the server have also been caused by players partaking in a PK clause outside of events. Sometimes you have to accept sacrificing your character narrative for the progression of others if it makes sense. Edited March 10 by Aengoth edit - responding to xarkly 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
femurlord 2364 Share Posted March 10 Personally, I've faced a lot of events where the death of my character is at stake. And what I've realized, is that if you want the rewards of narrative, you must take the risk. I do not believe ET should relent, but familiarize players with death in story building. Not everything goes your way and that is an important thing for growth, development and tension building in storytelling. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMuted 2459 Share Posted March 10 Hi goose My bad for leading us in there My fault dawg 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netphreak 449 Share Posted March 10 Just stay away from ST events and you'll be fine. o7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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