The Grind is Broken: Why a Single Full Kit Takes 2+ Hours

[SplitTheG 7740]

I yearn for the mines.

[NotEvilAtAll 10906]

If we’re grinding for kits anyways why not have there be ever so slightly better gear that costs a lot for grinders to aim for and regular gear that’s pretty cheap for everyone else. 
 

or at least like, cheap throw-away gear. Why not add chain armor

[Crevel 7557]

This clearly isn't the result wanted by Tech Team. To make it more conducive to roleplay, the Tech Team should create a plugin that includes a mini-game that requires you to take each singular ingot to an anvil to be shaped into sheets of metal (about 20 clicks per ingot to make sure it's all flat), and then those sheets must be used to craft armour and weapons. Similarly, the leather will also require leather pieces to be soaked in a cauldron filled with water and then placed on a campfire to dry in order to imitate the process of tanning before being used in equipment. 

[Slorbin 2932]

you should buy my metal

[KBR 2046]

22 minutes ago, NotEvilAtAll said:

If we’re grinding for kits anyways why not have there be ever so slightly better gear that costs a lot for grinders to aim for and regular gear that’s pretty cheap for everyone else. 
 

or at least like, cheap throw-away gear. Why not add chain armor

This is another good point, there's not really an incentive to the grind. I've heard that the current times have been compared to Nexus, but there was actually a reward to the nexus grind. At the moment all you get is more %rng chances of crafting something of better quality. 
Right now all you get for being the dedicated grinder is a pat on the back.

[wolfdwg 2677]

@KBRhas weak mental.

But on a serious note. The current node system made by techies is horrible. I think the previous one on Almaris, 16 ingots per fifteen minutes was far, far more reasonable, just apply it to not just be one person putting the node on server-wide cd, but have it be a personal cd for all players.

[Areon 947]

10 minutes ago, KBR said:

This is another good point, there's not really an incentive to the grind. I've heard that the current times have been compared to Nexus, but there was actually a reward to the nexus grind. At the moment all you get is more %rng chances of crafting something of better quality. 
Right now all you get for being the dedicated grinder is a pat on the back.

 

The crafting system itself mixed with the awful resource system makes me yearn for vanilla minecraft crafting tables.

 

Any person who visits multiple mines (with the nation modifiers on them) or the same mine multiple times a day should be able to walk away with a set of armor and a sword minimum.

[Wolfy-D 467]

Hello, local grinder here speaking up. My mining run on my kha takes about 5 minutes to mine the horde, SS to urguan, and mine there. Doing that twice would give me enough netherite for a full kit, and about 4-5 times for the iron needed. So in all it takes me like 20 of actual grinding time over 2 days if I mine when I log on and before bed each day. And then, I go mine on my radiant guard character in Idunia and Empire mines Wich gives me enough iron for a full kit in 2 runs, and no netherite whatsoever. All in all I don't mind the grind as it hardly takes away my time to RP at all, and worse case scenario I just only do it once that day and I still end up with way more resources i probably need because it only takes me 20 minutes over 2 days to get a kit and a half. But also I agree with javy, give us faster node resets so we get infinite kits and do more fighting so this war becomes less stale.

 

TLDR

Mining is fine as is in my opinion but it could be beneficial for the current state of the server to make small adjustments.

[Luto 439]

before nation mines got re-implmented, every single wild node in the map can take you 2h maybe 3 if you're not entirely locked in

mining in its current state isn't working at least in the way tech thought it would because it is a long-term investment of personal time that only 1-3 supergrinders of that nation end up doing nearly by themselves, it compromised my roleplay to a point where it feels like ive lost out on friendships and personal developments my character could've gained in that time, I feel all more socially behind than my peers as a result cause I had to repeatedly value grind over larp

just buff wild nodes, if visiting them is intended to be such a ball-ache then make that horse trip worth more than 4 pieces please

[KBR 2046]

52 minutes ago, Random said:

Imma be so real though, while I'm not the biggest fan of the grind I'm a big fan of slop low tier bandit personas with nothing other than pvp gear on them having to grind that long again after I have them D40

 

I'm a big believer that the server has a place for both RP and PVP, I have spent many years as an enlightened goon after @Riguplifted me. 

The problem I see here is what happens when two small nations go to war in the future? 
Hypothetical Salvo has 20 members, 15 enjoy pvping.
Hypothetical Druidnation has 20 members, 5 enjoy pvping.
Five druids have to do 3x as much grinding (AT LEAST) for the inevitable conflict, and the grinding they can do is all time gated. That or they have to recruit their friends who would much rather be RPing to help them grind. 
 

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

2 hours ago, KBR said:

I had intended to include unaffiliated players who would use only wild nodes, but I couldn’t find enough information. If anyone has good yields/routes (time) to share, I will update this post to include them.

 

msg me over discord; for my own sanity i've compiled a rough estimate of coordinates for most nodes that i have been unable to share due to "metaplaying" coords [thanks story management!].

 

Worth noting:

1) most of these were gathered pre-return of nation mines; I'm guessing a majority of empire and sub-empire realms have simply re-located them into locked, guarded, and basically inaccessible mines.

2) I haven't dumped 40 hours into finding them all as my primary focus has been the stupid herb nodes. Herb nodes seem to have their own issues, with them originally having a 6 +- 2 hour CD [fixed to the proper 3 +-1 hours cd] and multiple cases of what should be double or triple nodes only having a single resource. I've stumbled across plenty of wild node rocks that should have resources, but don't - its likely safe to assume some issue exists within ore nodes.

 

A vast majority of "useful" [coal/iron/neth] is localized to the northern parts of the map. The south is much more rich in gem nodes, gold, and copper. Add onto that roving warbands exist, and a mining "run" becomes a gamble for how many nodes you can safely hit before you get pvp defaulted and lose the stuff you had.

[____Spectral____ 168]

6 hours ago, KBR said:

A dwarf/orc player needs at least 2h30m of pure grinding for a single full kit, while an Empire player needs 1h50m. I will lay out the data, included below will be the HTML calculator I had claude host, and the excel sheet. Feel free to DM me if you need help using the sheet.
 

For this specific analysis, I used two types of players. These times are for solo runs, it will take longer for groups.

Empire Miner = Koyo, Idunia, Caroust, Norland, and Empire mines. (This run takes 30m solo, speed-running)

Dwarf/Orc Miner = Dwarf and Orc mines. (I am told this run takes 15-20m)

I had intended to include unaffiliated players who would use only wild nodes, but I couldn’t find enough information. If anyone has good yields/routes (time) to share, I will update this post to include them.
I have also not included leather into these calculations, as I am unsure of how feasible it is for the average player to have a barn.

 

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Please note that I have not included leather or arrows in these kits; they make it exponentially worse. Also, these kits are very barebones, as many of these items, like lances, have low durability; therefore, you would likely need at least three for a full, large-scale fight.

Kit Definitions:
Essential = Netherite Armor, Longsword, Crossbow, Pike, Shield
Cav = Iron Armor, Longsword, Javelin, Shortbow, Pike, Lance, Shield, Saddle
Full Kit = Netherite Armor, Iron Armor, Longsword, Crossbow, Longbow, Jav, Pike, Lance, Shield

This is the total amount of time it would take a player to make each of these kits.

 

It is worth noting that because mine cooldowns last six hours, these grind times are spread across days for most players. Can most players be expected to hit three, or even two, cooldowns in a day?
 

Mining Runs Per Kit

 

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Resources:

Gear Calculator -
Here is an HTML version of the gear calculator, it is functional and includes leather and arrows. Play with some numbers, you will quickly see how unreasonably high the costs become, both materially and time-wise.
For example, five base kits with sixteen arrows each. 440 netherite would take ten mining runs alone.

Excel File - Hosted on google sheets, download as .xlsk or just make a copy of the sheet. I am unsure of its functionality as a google sheet, it is intended to be used in excel but it might work fine.
 

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Conclusion

Currently, the state of grinding is broken; what you are rewarded with for this monumental time input is completely lackluster. Assuming the average player is on the server for 10 hours a week, that would be 20% of their playtime grinding (2 hours avg), 10% if they play 20 hours. This is all for a kit that you have a chance of losing in your first fight.

This creates gear-fear, which leads pvp-inclined players to go after easy targets in the midnight hours in order to circumvent this grind. If the grind was lesser, they would be less incentivized to do this, and instead fight other players who want to pvp.

Please also consider that the new war rules state:

As a “roleplayer”, these problems may seem inconsequential to you; however, with no CBs required, it could become your problem too.


 

  Reveal hidden contents

Credits:
Hugh - Grammar after I fried my brain in the spreadsheets
Areontrade - Resource costs while I was in the airport
Pancakehz - Information about orc mining runs

 

Yeah I'm not grinding all of that for xyz war or raid. As an RPer I heavily dislike the whole no CBs thing, and it's rather interesting to see the other server I play on go to having no CBs to CBs, and then LotC to CBs to no CBs. Literally adding back CBs even if they were easier to get would remove a lot of friction I have. How did you guys as a 'hardcore roleplay' server manage to make it easier to war for pvpers than the other one I play that I can't name for obvious reasons lmfao

[MrMojoMordor 2413]

Ive maybe mined 5 times this map.

Incredibly tedious.

[PrinceJose270 1211]

1 hour ago, ____Spectral____ said:

Yeah I'm not grinding all of that for xyz war or raid. As an RPer I heavily dislike the whole no CBs thing, and it's rather interesting to see the other server I play on go to having no CBs to CBs, and then LotC to CBs to no CBs. Literally adding back CBs even if they were easier to get would remove a lot of friction I have. How did you guys as a 'hardcore roleplay' server manage to make it easier to war for pvpers than the other one I play that I can't name for obvious reasons lmfao

This has been a thing since last map. War is cold and reasons are brutal. However i dont think that fits in lotcs style since it begrugingly turns the roleplay focus of the server to a faction focus. This is the case with "decendent world wars" and its simply for the fact crp takes too long. Magic, CAs, experiance irp. You can be an immortal lich or the most  min maxed heavy stone armored olog. If u suck at pvp darel the 5 year old musin with 1000 hours on hypixel duels is going to smoke you.

 

I always wondered how wars wpuld be like in a eventline like setting i e azdromoth v xan. But that would mean mod n st have to play nice with eachother.

 

Final 4 am rant i hope this map doesnt become another annex/subjugate  only wargoal. That was pretty much all of aevos.

 

 

Give me a crp pillage war mods n my life is yours

[_RoyalCrafter_ 5285]

How many posts must be made saying grinding is bad before the system is changed? everyone knows its bad, no one likes it, why is it so difficult to change when feedback is always given in posts and in comments.