Vote On The Way Combat Should Work!

[Dry Crackers 268]

This was an RP server even when there was PvP...it's been said for awhile now.

 

All the pro-PvP people been falling back on this whenever someone else goes "you're taking out the RP parts," &c.  However, hasn't it been discounted several times, what with the whole different atmosphere that the server has now.  I just felt it ought to be mentioned that you are using an argument which has been, as I see it, shot pretty full of holes.

 

I am now really understanding why this whole PvP-as-default makes sense as I am seeing an increasing number of massive disorganized RP brawls.  However, as I have said before, I foresee massive problems when item-hungry people REFUSE to RP with someone just because they want to "get it over with" and get their items and leave, not necessarily to do post-fight RP or whatever other trashy five minutes of less-fun roleplay has been suggested.  Alternatively maybe the other person has a unique character they can't express fully through a combat plugin, despite the best efforts of the devs.  They could be forced to PvP because those item-hungry thugs don't care about the RP, just how much iron their guild can rack up.

 

As you can probably see, I am extremely doubtful and perhaps cynical of the community as a whole.  I wouldn't trust us with a kitchen sink.

 

EDIT: To Cyndikate-LotC isn't about winning, yes, but it is about RPing.  If someone has been role-playing a fighting character and they're highly developed and whatnot, and they loose fights 24/7 because of the quality of their PC, they can't play the role accurately.

[Rhia 936]

Okay-

RedPK, DarkJames, Relgard and Demonxerov2. If you have nothing new to add then please move on, you 4 are just throwing the same arguments out and bickering... this is a thread to learn what the community wants, not who can shout the loudest longest. We understand your views and ask that you let others voice their opinion without being beaten into the earth for having a different view. 

 

If you continue to post without adding new ideas/perspectives to this thread I will issue warnings. 

[monkeypoacher 8055]

RP DEFAULT

 

PVP, even with special enhancing plugins, is going to be unbalanced. A DnD-style system can be worked around if one A: Clicks very fast, or B: Uses an aimbot or killaura to speed up their hits. Even if it rolls for damage for every hit, the more times a player clicks the more damage they do regardless of whether they get awful rolls. Bows become utterly worthless, as un-enchanted bows are generally awful in PvP combat. The crossbow system that Telanir and Tythus discussed during the livestream makes crossbows, which were amazing in RP, almost entirely useless. 

 

The system of a PvP default is just avoiding issues like power-gaming and OOC hatred. It's not the correct solution, because I swear I'm going to hate the person who PvP kills me much more than the one who RP kills me. I enjoy RP combat, especially when I have a particularly interesting foe. PvP to me is unbalanced and hectic, and only fun in very large battles during wars. 

 

My biggest problem with it, though, is it's going to be abused. Conflict RP factions with hoards of iron armor are going to maraud, consenting to nothing other than PvP. Their purpose was to provide conflict and fun RP, and this essentially ensures that they won't do that at all. I'm going to see even more players that fight for the sake of getting items, and more villains who are defying the purpose of their RP.

[racingbrother 226]

Whew! You guys are about to hit fifty pages, quite a long argument. Now, excuse me if this suggestion has already been thrown out there, for fifty pages is far too much for me to skim through. But here’s an idea I was thinking about yesterday when I first saw this poll. Why doesn’t the one who is being attacked/victimised in the situation the one who gets to pick whether or not they want PvP or RP? I’m pretty sure that the ones who are attacking are usually villains, also known as people who make applications to provide fun RP on the server. Why not hold them true to their testament that they just wish to provide a fun experience for all? If the victim wishes to RP it, then so be it, the villain should allow it to happen in the name of him providing a fun experience on the server, same thing with PvP.

 

But Racing, what if it’s not someone being attacked, but a fight that occurs due to both parties? Well, in this situation, I’d recommend that you figure it out OOC’ly first, but if that’s not an option, why not have a system in place in which the one who attacks first forfeits any claim to whether or not the battle should be RP or PvP. I think that’s only fair due to the person who first attacks is the one who is pushing the battle on the other party.

 

And if they are to attack one another at the exact same time? Well, I don’t really have an answer to that, but I would strongly recommend, as I did in the last situation, to figure it out OOC’ly first. If you can’t do that, then I’d say don’t partake in the forthcoming battle, it’ll just turn into an OOC conflict.

 

In my opinion, I see this benefitting both sides. The one who tried to get the battling experience gets it, and the one who’s being attacked isn’t forced into a type of battle they wish not to partake in. But I dun’know I don't even get into fights on the server, so maybe I'm just talking gibberish. What do you guys think? Feedback, critisism? Good idea, bad idea, does it need expansion?

[Polgrath 215]

                          I'm going to go on a brief tangent here on the merits of each.

        Role Play Combat is collective story telling, not actual struggle between two parties skills while in PVP the winner and loser are based off of their own merits. I highly support role play fighting when amongst close friends, but when dealing with another party who also wants to win on an ooc or even ic level  role play fighting devolves into the winner being whoever can push to win and yell the loudest. In RP fighting the best RPers are the ones that indulge the whims of the opposing side and allow themselves to be defeated. When someone brags about an awesome RP kill or victory they have achieved I struggle to be impressed. Pulling off a stealthy assassination or killing a crowd of people is a testament to the tolerance of your victims and your ooc desire to win. In fact I would go as far as to say that 90% of the time if someone pulls of some epic victory in RP they are likely just forceful oocly or have very oocly kind and tolerant rp enemies to defeat. However even good RP fighting with respectful oocly, skilled RPers devolves into the opposite problem with bland fights and both sides missing their swings constantly and generally undergaming resulting in bland fights which are admittedly far superior to when two powergamers cross paths.The rampancy of OOC bickering and ban/ strike reports from right around late Asulon and onwards when this was implemented attest to many of these problems as those more eloquent then I have pointed out. Continuing on my little side tangent, if I beat someone in PVP it is through my own skill, my own strategy that has done so. Converesly if I beat someone in RP fighting it is generally telling of only having a greater insistence on winning.

Pure RP would be nice in an ideal world but Anthos is not that world.

[Augor 142]

Considering everyone and their mother has posted on this thread, I decided I might as well give in my opinion. 

 

I was around during Aegis, and I have seen what happens with a fully PvP system. To be honest, some of it was great. We could simply have great roleplay before a battle and then fight it out in a balanced way, before going in our own ways. The problem with this system though, is that what about all of the RP a swordsman may do to improve themselves? Every swordsman character I have played has preformed intensive roleplay about improving his skill as a swordsman. What happens if we institute a PvP based system like this? Well, my swordsmen that I have played, and worked on for a long time, could be beat by a three year old child in a fight using the older PvP system. 

 

I am going to side with the roleplay system just for that reason. It would be pointless to carry out so many military drills and actions just to have it ended by a three year old character spam-clicking you to death. To be honest, I loved the old PvP system, I simply do not believe it will work here. Things were different then, and the server has changed. With magic being used more than ever before, and serious roleplay going into swordsmen characters, I simply do not believe this is the way to go.

[spqrSancus 175]

Whew! You guys are about to hit fifty pages, quite a long argument. Now, excuse me if this suggestion has already been thrown out there, for fifty pages is far too much for me to skim through. But here’s an idea I was thinking about yesterday when I first saw this poll. Why doesn’t the one who is being attacked/victimised in the situation the one who gets to pick whether or not they want PvP or RP? I’m pretty sure that the ones who are attacking are usually villains, also known as people who make applications to provide fun RP on the server. Why not hold them true to their testament that they just wish to provide a fun experience for all? If the victim wishes to RP it, then so be it, the villain should allow it to happen in the name of him providing a fun experience on the server, same thing with PvP.

 

But Racing, what if it’s not someone being attacked, but a fight that occurs due to both parties? Well, in this situation, I’d recommend that you figure it out OOC’ly first, but if that’s not an option, why not have a system in place in which the one who attacks first forfeits any claim to whether or not the battle should be RP or PvP. I think that’s only fair due to the person who first attacks is the one who is pushing the battle on the other party.

 

And if they are to attack one another at the exact same time? Well, I don’t really have an answer to that, but I would strongly recommend, as I did in the last situation, to figure it out OOC’ly first. If you can’t do that, then I’d say don’t partake in the forthcoming battle, it’ll just turn into an OOC conflict.

 

In my opinion, I see this benefitting both sides. The one who tried to get the battling experience gets it, and the one who’s being attacked isn’t forced into a type of battle they wish not to partake in. But I dun’know I don't even get into fights on the server, so maybe I'm just talking gibberish. What do you guys think? Feedback, critisism? Good idea, bad idea, does it need expansion?

 

That is a really nice idea, and pretty new. There have been some voting and some rolling compromises put forward, but I think this would work the best.

[Pato 82]

Considering everyone and their mother has posted on this thread, I decided I might as well give in my opinion. 

 

I was around during Aegis, and I have seen what happens with a fully PvP system. To be honest, some of it was great. We could simply have great roleplay before a battle and then fight it out in a balanced way, before going in our own ways. The problem with this system though, is that what about all of the RP a swordsman may do to improve themselves? Every swordsman character I have played has preformed intensive roleplay about improving his skill as a swordsman. What happens if we institute a PvP based system like this? Well, my swordsmen that I have played, and worked on for a long time, could be beat by a three year old child in a fight using the older PvP system. 

 

I am going to side with the roleplay system just for that reason. It would be pointless to carry out so many military drills and actions just to have it ended by a three year old character spam-clicking you to death. To be honest, I loved the old PvP system, I simply do not believe it will work here. Things were different then, and the server has changed. With magic being used more than ever before, and serious roleplay going into swordsmen characters, I simply do not believe this is the way to go.

 

Have you checked out the livestream? Telanir is developing a plugin to fix all of that. More is to come, but it is definitely something to check out!

 

[Joe_Blackman 253]

Can we know who voted for RP default and who voted for PvP default? I'd like to know who prefers RP over PvP and who prefers PvP over RP. So next time when we engage in combat, we'll know what sort of person we're dealing with.

[Xerxes_XIII 2 200]

RP Default.

 

I've made my feelings on the matter quite clear in the past. Its an RP server, leave the PVP to PVP servers.

 

Also, a note. I see a lot of people saying Aegis was PVP default. Whilst I'm not totally sure, in my experience most of the combat was done in roleplay with the addition of a /roll system. There was indeed PVP, but from what I saw, it was not the majority.

[Rhia 936]

Can we know who voted for RP default and who voted for PvP default? I'd like to know who prefers RP over PvP and who prefers PvP over RP. So next time when we engage in combat, we'll know what sort of person we're dealing with.

No.

[Joe_Blackman 253]

No.

W-why not?

[Rhia 936]

W-why not?

Yes, let me list all the people who don't agree with you so when you run into them IG you can take that information and use it against them..... sounds legit. 

[Glasiconas 111]

RP Default.

 

I've made my feelings on the matter quite clear in the past. Its an RP server, leave the PVP to PVP servers.

 

Also, a note. I see a lot of people saying Aegis was PVP default. Whilst I'm not totally sure, in my experience most of the combat was done in roleplay with the addition of a /roll system. There was indeed PVP, but from what I saw, it was not the majority.

That was late Aegis. The further back you go, the more PvP there was. ^^

[Ricky 321]

I like RP it still allows pvp in battles and group things. I also think and strongly believe that the RP system is only not working initially but for me and others I have noticed it increases RP and although pvp is necessary in battles due to the ridiculous amount of people, pvp is a brake from RP and relies on OOC keyboard skill rather than IC character skill. I do think that it improves over time just like with new people and did not do so well due to older players being set in their ways. 

It also fleshes out characters and helps people understand power gaming; lets be honest it is more likely to happen in RP fights and it is useful to help them be told off and learn, and so eradicate power gaming apart from the usual sometimes happening with new players.

 

One final point I have to raise is that people carry on saying  Aegis but I saw Aegis as organised chaos and I would rather it be RP than RPG style and have it as Organised Fun without all the pure pvp'ers while still keeping them a bay.

 

This is a small example of why the pvp and compromise are flawed-

 

There are two men one in full iron and with a VA the other a unarmed guard in the pvp system there is no exception for him and even though in the rp terms the VA man may be scrawny wearing lighter armour because of this and is also not very well trained and then the other man could easily be bigger stronger and a much better trained man and in the rp system stands a chance still. In the pvp system the man with no armour is dead every time unless he says something good beforehand. I dislike this system much due to the lack of rp and the conversion into a more chaotic easy for villains world.