Lgbt Rights Debate

[ski_king3 0]

The fact that being transgendered is a set thing that one cannot change or fix is supported by a metric fuckton of psychological studies. Saying that there is any way to fix them is like saying there's a way to cure someone of autism, or so many a study would suggest. If there wasn't a huge amount of research that went behind this argument, then perhaps I'd be more likely to agree with you Ballnazor, but gotta go with science on this one.

 

Source: AP Psychology and some scientific journals

[mmat 7460]

People can be gay all they want for all I care, It's no skin off my nose, but it's the ones that take offence at every little thing (such as people using 'gay' as an insult and making a massive fuss out of bs) that annoy me. Don't fling your weight around near me and you won't get bothered by me. In regard to transgender, Ballnazor's got it spot on, another likely consequence of political correctness and real life edginess gone wrong.

[Samson Option 9652]

The fact that being transgendered is a set thing that one cannot change or fix is supported by a metric fuckton of psychological studies. Saying that there is any way to fix them is like saying there's a way to cure someone of autism, or so many a study would suggest. If there wasn't a huge amount of research that went behind this argument, then perhaps I'd be more likely to agree with you Ballnazor, but gotta go with science on this one.

 

Source: AP Psychology and some scientific journals

Just wanted to point out that the DSM has been changed a great many times. Originally it marked African American males as insane. Food for thought. Likewise, until 1974, it marked homosexuality as a "sociopathic disorder". I have to say the DSM is a shaky cake to display as evidence.

[Lego XBOX 915]

Transgenders have the mind of the gender opposite to their biological one. Why?

 

​To be simple, it's a psychological dysfunction. There really is only a minority that do it 'because they can'.

 

 

As pointed out by various here, a psychological dysfunction is not something to 'clean up'. I'm going to point out again that a phobia is also considered (clinically) a psychological dysfunction… So Ballnazor, my point stands.

 

On that point, the only people sent to psychiatric facilities are those that are affected by psychiatric troubles which make them dangerous. By definition, crazed people are sent to those facilities...

 

A transgender is not crazed.

 

And deranged is a subjective notion in the context you are using it.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Unless you can show me medical proof that trans gender identification is a medical defect and it is somehow a physical danger or detriment to the people around them, I would suggest you just leave non-straight people be, People are all different. This is just a different form of people different, we're all people

[ski_king3 0]

Just wanted to point out that the DSM has been changed a great many times. Originally it marked African American males as insane. Food for thought. Likewise, until 1974, it marked homosexuality as a "sociopathic disorder". I have to say the DSM is a shaky cake to display as evidence.

 

I'm basing this off of a bunch of psychological studies independent of each other, not how the DSM classifies being transgendered. It's been a few years, so I'll admit that the studies are a bit fuzzy and likely a bit old, but I do remember that there was a lot of evidence to suggest that being transgendered was a thing that one couldn't change, with shockingly little evidence to support widely espoused counterarguments.

[DragoonCrow 346]

When you have a physiological dysfunction, you  obviously have a problem. So, what you all are saying, is that trannies have a huge problem. 

 

I support homosexuals in every way, as long as they're not screaming out loud and complaining about their issues. I know some perfectly cool homosexuals, you would never guess they were dipping their chips in the wrong bowl. 

 

Unfortunately, there's also the other ones. People who think being gay entitles them to change their voices to sound more feminine, run around with purses, and complain about being stepped upon. 

 

I feel like being a tranny goes under the latter. You're obviously not satisfied by what card you're dealt. Unfortunately, these kind of people are extremely expensive for society. In my country, trannies receive special care by our government. They use resources that could have been allocated to other more useful things, or could free up doctors that could save lives. 

[Katherine1 362]

You're treated with the same respect as anyone, I just think that people such as you have a serious mental illness. Despite what you seem to believe, you are not a boy/girl. It is not something you can just decide on, you are born into a gender, and will be part of that gender for the entirety of your life. Its not rocket science, if you have a **** get used to it, if you have a ****** get used to it. 

 

And sure, the disease did exist way back, but it was not as prominent. Western decadence and general failure of culture has led to society being more fucked up than ever. Then again, some trans people here and there was not something big as it is today. Its not about not recognizing you, its that what you're doing is a stupid fad and/or a serious mentall illness. Make your choice.

 

Read up on the "Rasbiologiska Institutet", if you want to know more about "cleaning up". It worked, it was effective.

 

I'm treated with the same respect as anyone? Right, that's why I have to worry about being assaulted or harassed for using the bathroom, no matter which I use. Everyone has that experience, right? No? Hmm...

Your understanding of this "serious mental illness" seems to be pretty misinformed. Through several peer reviewed studies, it is clear that the brain structure of trans people align with their identified sex, not their biological sex. The brain is highly maliable, but not so much so as to overcome basic brain structure. It isn't an idea that can be wiped out with Eugenics. It's a biological condition that has always occured in a subset of the population, and will always occur in a subset of the population. And you call cultures with recognized third genders all over the world as not prominent? Two spirit, hijira, sekhet. Oh, and there are references to third genders all the way back in Sumerian writing. The oldest writing on the planet. We have always existed.

I thought you'd be giving me some reparative therapy bullcrap and would have to go over how, no, that doesn't work on trans people any more then it fails to work on people who are gay, but no. Instead I find you pointed me to a Eugenics institute. Are you serious? Do I even need to go over why Eugenics is wrong? I'm amazed anyone would seriously point to a Eugenics institute as a way to "clean up" trans people.

 

Sources linked in the body of the text:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870186

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19341803

 

Just wanted to point out that the DSM has been changed a great many times. Originally it marked African American males as insane. Food for thought. Likewise, until 1974, it marked homosexuality as a "sociopathic disorder". I have to say the DSM is a shaky cake to display as evidence.

This is true. I would note that the DSM V does change how it lists trans people, however. Instead of listing actually being transgender as a disorder in and of itself, it instead lists gender dysphoria as a disorder, which I would say is correct. The problems caused by that disconnect remaining untreated are horrible.

[Lathros 377]

Like I've said on the first or second page, I'm a Christian, I'm straight. I'm supposed to be 'against' homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, or anyone who isn't hetrosexual. It's in the bible. And, while some may take this more seriously than others. . . (Westboro Baptist Church) it's still there. And do I respect it's there? Yes. Do I hate, or dislike those who aren't hetrosexual? No. I respect it, do I recognize being homosexual, bisexual, or being pansexual as a mental disorder? No. This doesn't affect me at all. I'm not trying to sound selfish here, but if being non hetrosexual is the thing which lets you sleep at night, or be happy on the planet Earth. Then go for it! I don't care, I won't walk up to your house and compel you with the power of Christ. If you have an added body part, which you weren't born with I'm not going to cut it off. That's horrid. If something makes you happy, let it make you happy. I'm not going to go against you. I also go to a Christian school, I've talked to my bible teacher about this, for it's a difficult subject for me to grasp. This is my best interpretation of said argument. A little more in depth, perhaps? I don't know. Anyways, have fun guys. :3

 

This was not, and is not intended to be sarcastic in any way shape or form. If this does in fact annoy you, or anger you, or upset you, feel free to PM me! I'd be happy to talk.

[DragoonCrow 346]

 

I'm treated with the same respect as anyone? Right, that's why I have to worry about being assaulted or harassed for using the bathroom, no matter which I use. Everyone has that experience, right? No? Hmm...

Your understanding of this "serious mental illness" seems to be pretty misinformed. Through several peer reviewed studies, it is clear that the brain structure of trans people align with their identified sex, not their biological sex. The brain is highly maliable, but not so much so as to overcome basic brain structure. It isn't an idea that can be wiped out with Eugenics. It's a biological condition that has always occured in a subset of the population, and will always occur in a subset of the population. And you call cultures with recognized third genders all over the world as not prominent? Two spirit, hijira, sekhet. Oh, and there are references to third genders all the way back in Sumerian writing. The oldest writing on the planet. We have always existed.

I thought you'd be giving me some reparative therapy bullcrap and would have to go over how, no, that doesn't work on trans people any more then it fails to work on people who are gay, but no. Instead I find you pointed me to a Eugenics institute. Are you serious? Do I even need to go over why Eugenics is wrong? I'm amazed anyone would seriously point to a Eugenics institute as a way to "clean up" trans people.

 

Sources linked in the body of the text:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870186

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19341803

 

This is true. I would note that the DSM V does change how it lists trans people, however. Instead of listing actually being transgender as a disorder in and of itself, it instead lists gender dysphoria as a disorder, which I would say is correct. The problems caused by that disconnect remaining untreated are horrible.

 

 

If you feel like you're special. Why not go to the handicapped toilet? I'm not sure about the rest of you guys, but if I was a female, I wouldn't want a dude walking around the bathroom, and likewise with males. 

[Samson Option 9652]

See, the heat has been brought to the stove and the "smiley faces" have cracked. This will never achieve the status of a Socratic discussion. You all have dug your trenches and I repeat a question from earlier:

 

"Besides Dread Knight Verin, how many pro-gays actually participate in something in-real-life to aid their cause? I am just curious. Being a "trans/gay/hetero- resource" on the internet does not count."

[DragoonCrow 346]

See, the heat has been brought to the stove and the "smiley faces" have cracked. This will never achieve the status of a Socratic discussion. You all have dug your trenches and I repeat a question from earlier:

 

"Besides Dread Knight Verin, how many pro-gays actually participate in something in-real-life to aid their cause? I am just curious. Being a "trans/gay/hetero- resource" on the internet does not count."

 

Too be honest Gaius. I think the best way to support them is to not give a **** about it. They want to be normal, so I simply don't care. I feel like that's more supportive than going on campaigns of joy that just cause more problems. 

[TwilightWolf 901]

If you feel like you're special. Why not go to the handicapped toilet? I'm not sure about the rest of you guys, but if I was a female, I wouldn't want a dude walking around the bathroom, and likewise with males. 

I agree with you here somewhat. We have two bathrooms designated for two types of bodies, male and female. In my opinion, it does not make sense to use a bathroom that was designed to cater the needs of a specific sex (like a man using a women's restroom). There are things in each bathroom that are specifically designed to meet the needs of that biological sex. It has nothing to do with what gender you see yourself as, it's more along the lines using the restroom that is most equipped to suit your body's needs.

And idk about you but seeing a woman try to use a urinal just sounds silly.

[Lago 2572]

On all this toilet discussion, don't toilets have cubicles?
 

Through several peer reviewed studies, it is clear that the brain structure of trans people align with their identified sex, not their biological sex.

Physical brain structure is gender-dependent? (Heart structure being an example of something that isn't) I guess I learned something from reading all this.

Something productive came out of this thread after all.

[Will (TauFirewarrior) 2466]

Marriage is religious so it should remain up to whatever religion you are a part of luckily there's something called a civil partnership, same thing just a legal thing rather than religious.