[Shelved]The Clerics Of Tahariae

[Mephistophelian 972]

I'm pretty sure that clerics have never been able to remove a person's connection to a soul contract. I've asked Jistuma to be sure, as he is the maker and expert on that lore, but I am still quite sure.

[Ventusyr 232]

Back when I was MAT, before either of you were Clerics, the method of disconnection was simply that any powerful holy magic user could disconnect another if and only if they weren't following the will of their patron.

 

The reason I bring this up is because once upon a time "Creator Clerics" were a thing. I played one, as most of y'all know, and was considered capable of removing someone's magic if they abused it. However, it was always determined that I could only do so if the person was truly not using their powers properly, and thus it was never needed. The current disconnection, as I understand it, follows neither of these. In my opinion, being at a point where your magic can be removed should be a significant thing, and when it is capable of happening, any with the strength to do it should be able to. This method seems far more ripe for abuse, though perhaps it's been the status quo for a little while.

 

It was ripe for abuse, which is why I changed it so that disconnection is only able to be done if said cleric violates their patron's rules. If they do disconnect a cleric without patron permission, they'd be targeted for disconnection and their growth as a cleric would cease.

 

However, it needs to  be a learned spell. Personally, I'd prefer if clerics operated like monks, where a single transgression results in the immediate loss of connection on the spot (so I understand it), but it doesn't fit in with the rest of cleric or Aengudaemonic lore, where Tahariae has no direct control over what we do with our powers.

 

Which is the same reason the method of disconnection you propose doesn't work. Cleric magic works through specific spells that require conceptual knowledge on the task at hand, not just a connection. If Tahariae doesn't take full control over tasks when we do healings, and the knowledge on how to do so doesn't come spontaneously to our minds, why would he with disconnection? All cleric magic is learned. It doesn't make much sense for a cleric to have spontaneous knowledge on how to do something unless Tahariae revealed it to them in a vision (i.e., Itharel having conceptual knowledge of all things cleric).

 

So, yes, any powerful cleric CAN perform a disconnection, but only if they have been taught how to by a cleric who has been taught the spell. It's not even close to as abusable as with the cleric having full control over the magic with no divine repercussions (which goes against cleric lore anyways, since war cleric magic is equally as abusable but it DOES have divine repercussions of being disconnect-worthy), and it fits in with cleric magic being spell-based. Having every experienced cleric have equal opportunity to perform the spell, as you say the Creator clerics used to do it, would probably make it more abusable. I am taking the best aspects of both your and Dandan's interpretations of disconnection and putting them into one: a trusted, limited amount of people can perform a disconnection, but only if the cleric has broken a rule of their patron. Abusable only as much as war cleric magic is.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that clerics have never been able to remove a person's connection to a soul contract. I've asked Jistuma to be sure, as he is the maker and expert on that lore, but I am still quite sure.

 

Just talked to Jitsuma about it and you are absolutely right. I wrote that in based on misconceptions and guesses about soul contract lore. I'll edit that out! Thanks for pointing that out to me!

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1041]

"It was during this time that the Aengul Yeu Rthulu inexplicably retracted Its blessing of priest healing amongst the Descendants. Unbeknownst to anybody on the mortal realm, Tahariae took over for It in answering Its followers prayers."

Just going to say, as lore writer 'n stuff... If I could change this- I'd say Tahariae took it... Not Yeu Rthulu retracted it... it doesnt make any sense with the aengul...

[Ventusyr 232]

"It was during this time that the Aengul Yeu Rthulu inexplicably retracted Its blessing of priest healing amongst the Descendants. Unbeknownst to anybody on the mortal realm, Tahariae took over for It in answering Its followers prayers."

Just going to say, as lore writer 'n stuff... If I could change this- I'd say Tahariae took it... Not Yeu Rthulu retracted it... it doesnt make any sense with the aengul...

 

Edited!

[Jake the Dog 290]

Given the fact I was disconnected for interrogating, flirting. And then trying to convert a low level soul puppeteer to make them go good, I honestly had not broken any tenants. Only then was I emoted loosing all clerical ability. Since I was deemed guilty of my crime of trying to save a life breaking all laws Then to which I noticed quiet a few xan paladins suddenly turn up with an never seen before cleric whom had disconnecting power from years ago. They had all heard of tahariaes condemming within only about 2 mins of my supposed tenant breaking and were waiting ready before the condemnation emote even fully ended. This is why I have been salty over clerical activities. Because mine ended with such an ooc set up that I was just left angry and upset.

Ps its 5:27am I have had 16 glasses of coke at a wedding the night before and I just don't give a damn anymore

Had to see this damn post and bloody trigger the anger and depression on that day

416 days as the second ever war cleric before healing student. Master of both subtypes and half way into blessing

[Lynx 158]

Given the fact I was disconnected for interrogating, flirting. And then trying to convert a low level soul puppeteer to make them go good, I honestly had not broken any tenants. Only then was I emoted loosing all clerical ability. Since I was deemed guilty of my crime of trying to save a life breaking all laws Then to which I noticed quiet a few xan paladins suddenly turn up with an never seen before cleric whom had disconnecting power from years ago. They had all heard of tahariaes condemming within only about 2 mins of my supposed tenant breaking and were waiting ready before the condemnation emote even fully ended. This is why I have been salty over clerical activities. Because mine ended with such an ooc set up that I was just left angry and upset.

Ps its 5:27am I have had 16 glasses of coke at a wedding the night before and I just don't give a damn anymore

Had to see this damn post and bloody trigger the anger and depression on that day

416 days as the second ever war cleric before healing student. Master of both subtypes and half way into blessing

You were disconnected by Hosper, while I was the first at the scene. You knew they were a dark arts user and moved to not rid them rather flirt and try to engage in a relationship with them, the one that alerted us only did so after hearing about you doing similar things before. Your job as a war-cleric is to purge those that use evil magics, not to nurse them back to good.  

[ℤ∃ʁ∅ 823]

Given the fact I was disconnected for interrogating, flirting. And then trying to convert a low level soul puppeteer to make them go good, I honestly had not broken any tenants. Only then was I emoted loosing all clerical ability. Since I was deemed guilty of my crime of trying to save a life breaking all laws Then to which I noticed quiet a few xan paladins suddenly turn up with an never seen before cleric whom had disconnecting power from years ago. They had all heard of tahariaes condemming within only about 2 mins of my supposed tenant breaking and were waiting ready before the condemnation emote even fully ended. This is why I have been salty over clerical activities. Because mine ended with such an ooc set up that I was just left angry and upset.

Ps its 5:27am I have had 16 glasses of coke at a wedding the night before and I just don't give a damn anymore

Had to see this damn post and bloody trigger the anger and depression on that day

416 days as the second ever war cleric before healing student. Master of both subtypes and half way into blessing

 

 

You were disconnected by Hosper, while I was the first at the scene. You knew they were a dark arts user and moved to not rid them rather flirt and try to engage in a relationship with them, the one that alerted us only did so after hearing about you doing similar things before. Your job as a war-cleric is to purge those that use evil magics, not to nurse them back to good.  

Well i have a few questions on this matter, because around this time before Jakir was disconnected he was with someone at the time, from what I remember. 

 

"Your job as a war-cleric is to purge those that use evil magics, not to nurse them back to good.  "

 

Does this same rule apply to Itherals? 

 

I've been threatened 3 times by __ Itheral that Ramza would be disconnected if he tried to either the necromancer and shade, my character trying to do his duty as a cleric to purge evil. As the Itheral trying to protect the Shade and Necromancer. Does this apply as well or should my character listen to the order given from the Itheral because it is the big boss and is closest to Tah. 

 

Is that not hypocritical its self? Are Itherals above the law they try to put on us lower clerics? Do the Itherals get disconnecte for disobeying his orders? Can they make up their own rules?

 

 

P.S its like 3am so might or might not make sense. Just curious on this matter if we wanna talk about this.

[Jake the Dog 290]

You were disconnected by Hosper, while I was the first at the scene. You knew they were a dark arts user and moved to not rid them rather flirt and try to engage in a relationship with them, the one that alerted us only did so after hearing about you doing similar things before. Your job as a war-cleric is to purge those that use evil magics, not to nurse them back to good.

Ok so the cleric shade truce in anthos. Made by Hosper. Skale the ikuras cult higher up, now a cleric under huw. If disconnects are with trying to convince a low level soul puppeteer to convert and give up there ways by making friends, while also getting cult info out of them (which I did) then you best go disconnect both Lyuin and Hosper.

[Dromui 754]

Ok so the cleric shade truce in anthos. Made by Hosper. Skale the ikuras cult higher up, now a cleric under huw. If disconnects are with trying to convince a low level soul puppeteer to convert and give up there ways by making friends, while also getting cult info out of them (which I did) then you best go disconnect both Lyuin and Hosper.

 

Disconnecting Lyuin would probably make him the happiest man alive. As for me, Skale lost his Shade and started to nurse himself past the darkness. He gave up Ikuras and stopped practicing magic in general. Lyuin found Skale after he purged most of the darkness from his being, all because of the Shade being removed. So in terms of Skale, your logic/argument is invalid. I get you're upset about whatever happened back then, but this thread is not the place for it. Bring it to a private chat, the server doesn't need to read people arguing back and forth or bitching on a canon lore page. 

 

So all in all, move the **** on.

 

EDIT: Lyuin wasn't trying to **** Skale and Hosper wasn't trying to **** all the Shades. If Jakir had control of his ****, he may of remained a War Cleric. Just saying.

[Jake the Dog 290]

Well i have a few questions on this matter, because around this time before Jakir was disconnected he was with someone at the time

Yeeeeah the was and still is your sister bud. OOC sister that is

[Jake the Dog 290]

Disconnecting Lyuin would probably make him the happiest man alive. As for me, Skale lost his Shade and started to nurse himself past the darkness. He gave up Ikuras and stopped practicing magic in general. Lyuin found Skale after he purged most of the darkness from his being, all because of the Shade being removed. So in terms of Skale, your logic/argument is invalid. I get you're upset about whatever happened back then, but this thread is not the place for it. Bring it to a private chat, the server doesn't need to read people arguing back and forth or bitching on a canon lore page.

So all in all, move the **** on.

EDIT: Lyuin wasn't trying to **** Skale and Hosper wasn't trying to **** all the Shades. If Jakir had control of his ****, he may of remained a War Cleric. Just saying.

As a user of dark magic if lynxs logic is correct then lyuin should of just killed you over and over without mercy. I don't wish to remain quiet about it anymore, I don't care if the whole server hates me by the end. And I still don't understand where the talk of Jakir trying to sleep with came from, the best thing is that he was not, people always comment and gossip about it but it never acutally happed. Have any of you seen me acutally rp doing such? Not just joking about it ooc or ic?

[excited 10833]

Moral of the story, stick to your damned archetypes. If you're a good guy, don't date bad guys and vice versa. It makes no sense. Clerics kill necros, necros kill clerics. THAT is all I got to say on this topic.

PS: Tons of shades turning into clerics, it's kinda silly tbh. ​
 

[ℤ∃ʁ∅ 823]

Moral of the story, stick to your damned archetypes. If you're a good guy, don't date bad guys and vice versa. It makes no sense. Clerics kill necros, necros kill clerics. THAT is all I got to say on this topic.

PS: Tons of shades turning into clerics, it's kinda silly tbh. ​

Pretty much what he said. Because it really doesn't fully make sense besides the cliche "I want to become good again and redemption."

You don't need to become a cleric just for redemption. It's only make the clerics or groups look worst taking in ex cultist and dark mages. No offense.

But it just makes us that we're good and worked hard to get what we have and strive for to be just put down and thrown off the rug by adding an person that's used dark arts and were a dark thing in a group of holy people.

There will be no trust or pity for them. You would be labelled as a black sheep. Drone imma use Skale as an example if that's fine with you, because me and you had a lot of rp before I was cleric and when Skale was a dark used. NO META this info.

But as real example.

We all knew Skale was a cultist and dark art user (didn't know about the shade thing) and then after a few ic years after things crumbles in whatever. He turns out to some how become a cleric. Well connected. Was he given trials? Approvals or thoughts from others. Was others in the order told of his past actions to reviving an Demon ?(I don't know the full story) but after the things the infamous Skale has done and hurt many.

Are the clerics that have strive to be and work so hard on their path for Tah suppose to treat him as an normal person after all he has done? Give him a slap on the wrist?

Some maybe but majority were salted ic and ooc about it because it was silly and didn't make since. (I didn't really care cuz I wasn't a cleric at that time, but I was told ooc and icly about it and was confused on the logic of it. Besides "redemption" who knows what Skales actually motive of it? He gave off the impression of just wanting power and maybe told some. Idk

My point is it is rather silly of bringing ex cultist and ex shades as clerics and Itherals. It really shows a flaw in the "Purity" we are suppose to have in clerics.

Another question Lynx maybe that you said about Jakir being a war cleric and his duty.

Again.

" Your job as a war-cleric is to purge those that use evil magics, not to nurse them back to good. "

If this rumor or word that your itheral character was an ex shade and dark art user like Skales. And itherals are higher up war clerics.

That quote seems rather hypocritical to those who connected you both as a cleric and Itheral. Is that not fair ?

Not to sound offensive. Just confused as all.

The whole "Itherals make the rules and can do what they want." Still doesn't justify them breaking it either. If you can explain to me I'd love it please and thank you.

[Dromui 754]

To be honest, I actually left because a lot of OOC. It's pretty pathetic seeing people getting salty OOC about a character. You're right, redemption doesn't always require becoming a Cleric, but if you did the RP, went through all the OOC bull ****, broke down the barriers to get there, then you deserve it. And if you're worried about looking back because of taking in bad guys, you have a problem. Tah Clerics don't look bad for taking in ex-bad guys, they look bad because they cannot keep an order together and don't do ****. 

 

That's why you guys look bad. Not because some character's are seeking a better life and turn to a Deity to help them.

 

I don't mind you using Skale as an example, because Skale is a prime example of a character that did a lot of bad. But that didn't stop him from coming back and doing a lot of good. I guarantee you over the course of the week and a half I've been back I've likely healed more people than most of the order has over the five months I was on break.

 

To those of you reading this, don't let OOC change what you want to do with your character. Do what you like. Obviously you need to follow the guidelines and rules, but if you aren't breaking rules, then do what you enjoy. Because that's what roleplay is about. Not how someone thinks their clique are gonna look because of you.

 

******* pathetic.

 

EDIT:

 

1. The Trials Lyuin put Skale through for Clerical Healing alone were as difficult as some of your War Cleric trials. What does this mean? It means Skale went above and beyond to prove to Tahariae that he was faithful and truly wished to serve.

 

2. He learned how to heal people. If Skale wanted power, he would of continued doing the magic he knew. He was already powerful.

 

3. You triggered me.

[ℤ∃ʁ∅ 823]

To be honest, I actually left because a lot of OOC. It's pretty pathetic seeing people getting salty OOC about a character. You're right, redemption doesn't always require becoming a Cleric, but if you did the RP, went through all the OOC bull ****, broke down the barriers to get there, then you deserve it. And if you're worried about looking back because of taking in bad guys, you have a problem. Tah Clerics don't look bad for taking in ex-bad guys, they look bad because they cannot keep an order together and don't do ****.

That's why you guys look bad. Not because some character's are seeking a better life and turn to a Deity to help them.

I don't mind you using Skale as an example, because Skale is a prime example of a character that did a lot of bad. But that didn't stop him from coming back and doing a lot of good. I guarantee you over the course of the week and a half I've been back I've likely healed more people than most of the order has over the five months I was on break.

To those of you reading this, don't let OOC change what you want to do with your character. Do what you like. Obviously you need to follow the guidelines and rules, but if you aren't breaking rules, then do what you enjoy. Because that's what roleplay is about. Not how someone thinks their clique are gonna look because of you.

******* pathetic.

Skale is a great prime example of a greatly developed person I'm not gonna lie, he's done ALOT to get where he is not. THOROUGH circle jerk or am vip pass like most people to get to power, from what I've seen. Skale did a fine job on that as a villain. I do like Skale as a villain.

I fully agree with you on the first 6 sentences very well said without the hostile tone. But yes if you have done the rp and such the HEAVY rp to get where you are at you deserve it. If you are just picked due to the buddy buddy system. You don't deserve it, there should be heavy rp that gets you to where you are at now. Not "you are cool, join us " there should be more of a reason and motive to get involved.

In rp spect, there can always be the spy in the order that can be s problem or the bad apples that should've been trained better,helped more on and other such.

On the second paragraph last part, please don't get cocky on that part. While you have been gone a lot has changed and recently a big thing happened, which myself and Hesh have been working on big things for the clerics. As Dan is on break to do irl things I've taken the effort to help,fix and do my damned best to fix what has been broken and redeemed of the clerics and the stigma. Most have already seen the change. There has been lots of us new and active clerics have done. But we do not need to be boosting our abilities around. With new clerics and old clerics working together we have done a lot and jumped a lot to get where we are. I've been fixing our flaws lately but you can't see it with a snap of your fingers. But things are being worked on. As you can see from Heshs lore thing, we've been working on this for about a month and look how much it is from the last clerical more and guide.