A Response to the Admin's Response

[rukio 8910]

Spoiler

 

Hey guys,

 

 

First off, apologies for the delayed response, we needed some time to put all our thoughts together.

 

We understand that many of you are curious, confused, and/or frustrated by the Administration’s recent decision to ban Twi (Twinndolin) for Community Guideline Violations. We’ll try to shine a bit of light on our motive and overall reasoning behind the ban. 

 

Let's just start with this brief preface. We, the Administration, are always working tirelessly and try our very hardest to ensure the best for the community and server as a whole, considering everyone who helps build our collective narrative.

 

Objectively, we already know this isn’t true, at least to an extent. How many times has an admin told people with legitimate complaints to cope and seethe in OOC or on the forums? How often have administration let creeps and pests slip through the cracks- such as Leowarrior being allowed to continue playing on a hidden alt? How often have admins let playerbases die because they didn’t bother to get all of the facts about situations before issuing a ban, such as with Arichsdorf and to some extent Oren as well? How often do vile people like the staff member, who was reported in February for things I’ve brought up to you, get pardoned despite multiple players feel unsafe or targeted by them?

 

 From time to time, decisions need to be made to reflect that ideal, and sometimes like in this case, the community doesn’t understand how or why we possibly made this decision. This occurs especially in cases where a lot of evidence is submitted under the mutual understanding of confidentiality which cannot under any circumstance be broken. In every report, we do our best to see the full context of the scenario, and have actively kept up to date with reports (new and old) to make sure we have the full story and all the developments. 

 

Private reports in all regards except things along the lines of legal action, pedophilia, so on so forth should almost never exist. Often the people who cry foul or fear of harassment were doing equal slandering back or do the same if not worse to other people. Private reports are purely used as a medium with which to ensure the person you are targeting cannot fight back with their own counter-evidence or argument. They are innately unfair and unjust to the accused in almost every situation. If the person being reported or their friends targets or harasses the reporter it is incredibly easy to block a Discord account and is just further evidence they should be banned. Private reports only exist to cause confusion and annoyance, though usually on a much smaller scale than we see with this ban.

 

In regards to Twi's ban - over the last several months their actions and behaviour have shown us reason to be concerned. Before the conception of what is now the modern-day Celianor, Twi made it their goal to establish their own High Elven player group. Towards this end, they would do whatever necessary to see their ideal achieved. Instead of establishing their own Settlement and starting their group's journey there, they opted to attempt to coup Haelun’or instead. The prospect of taking over a pre-existing Nation with all its players and perks was all but too alluring. Their intentions however remained the same. They wished to create their own High Elven community.

 

Ok and? Why should the desire to outwit and outsmart opposition within your nation matter? How many times have administration teams allowed Norland to be conquered, Oren to collapse, how much roleplay has come from those conflicts? Why are we hindering roleplay through OOC means? To appease a playerbase that threatens to quit if they lose? The last time a significant portion of players quit was when Oren left with Mog in 2014. People always return. Staff need to stop tolerating the threat of a player quitting when they don’t get their way. It leads to these problems. Further- why are you wording it as though Ivarielle/Twi.anyone else from her group was an outsider to Haelun’or? You phrase your reply as though Twi is a fox in the hen house. A significant portion of the group who was involved in her coup were long term Haelun’or players. 

 Thus, they would plan to take over the Nation and had intentions to change it quite considerably. They intended to replace all the Haelun’orian culture and structures with that of their own. They wished to take over a community they weren't part of and rip it down, possibly leading to a considerable part of the playerbase leaving altogether. Towards that end, they even asked their friend oocly to infiltrate the nation and to hand it over to themselves. 

 

Changing a nation you take over is based. Again, why should we, as the players, care if someone’s character intended to change the culture of an ancient nation that teeters on the edge of just breaking activity- that, mind you, is no longer even a nation? Again, the playerbase would not leave. Those who would were inactive before the coup and would return to being inactive after, as some have already proven to do so. If you are going to make accusations of that OOC nature then you should be required to give us proof, else that just looks bad on the administration’s part. 

 

While the Administration does not permit bias toward any nation, we do care deeply for each individual player group, and if something would threaten to wipe out their existence as Twi had stated multiple times, this is a problem. This leads to some of the more publically problematic behaviors Twi displayed which were extremely worrying to anyone with roleplay in their best mind.

 

I do believe there is a screenshot where Matta specifically told Twi under no circumstance would Haelun’or be conquered, by her or overall I cannot say. Your beginning sentence, however, is a lie through that alone. Very few people have genuinely good intent for roleplay on the forefront of their mind. Most of this server is backstabbing and scheming OOC for power or to coup. If you think it is possible to take any power without OOC you are objectively wrong. Its why I actively avoid leadership and pity my friends who take up the mantle. Stop vilifying a player without proof in your response to player outrage.

 

However we gave Twi the benefit of the doubt; that they did have roleplay at heart, and that perhaps the evidence we had at the time for their OOC motives was out of context. We agreed to move past this and give them a chance to establish their own community with every support we could provide. 

 

And look at how Celia’nor has thrived under her. She is a content creator. She is a community leader. People enjoy their community under her. Stop over punishing the people who are competent enough to lead a large player base. You’re going to have none left and the server will die. Also, don’t punish NLs or leaders for the actions of their player base. No mas factions. As a side note, things like this are clearly jokes in nature:

 

 

 

After this, modern-day Celianor, the one you all know now was established. This seemed like a great thing for the server as a new group, very different and unique from the Haelun’orian one was created. As time went on, the activity numbers started to climb and climb. However, despite this, Twi still would engage in several ooc plots to suit their agenda. OOC threats, ramblings on destroying various nations, their cultures, their playerbases, both in target of an unrelated handful of people and their characters, and simply (with quote) because they could. Twi stated verbosely how they would not stop attempting to destroy other playerbases to the best of their ability until they were stopped by Administration/Moderation, and would then continue to push the limit. Twi was not alone in this, and for months had ranted about these goals to wipe out multiple playerbases, using their own as a platform to do so. Within the last month, Twi stated in three separate chats sent to Administration that Celia'nor was simply a means to an end to destroy every playerbase which might have displeased them. 

 

How many times have I meme’d in your DMs about something similar? How often does everyone make the same jokes about conquering their enemies? How can we believe anything you’re saying when you’ve forum banned her so we can’t actually hear her side or get any proof or disproof of her supposed actions? You’ve silenced her and told us what happened yet we lack any proof. Plenty of people in the posts prior already cited that Twi jokes about that stuff all of the time and how you likely take it out of context.

 

These are serious accusations we received, and while this behavior was perceived in both OOC chat and Forum posts alone from earlier this year, this is unacceptable. If we wish to move forward as a roleplaying community, we cannot have leaders dedicated to trying to swing their weight in game to abuse and ego on people OOCly.

 

See: Staff member report aforementioned. That staff member is also a community leader. No action was taken on her despite multiple accounts.

 

 There should be no excuse for what is practically quoted, if not directly quoted, above. There should be no excuse for wanting to push limits and destroy playerbases for amusement or to prove some point. This community is driven by roleplay. Let us be clear- this is not, nor will ever be, any form of roleplay we condone.

 

Ah, yes, heaven forbid players with legitimate reasons IRP attempt to conquer other nations or go to war. Why does every administration team do this thing where you kill conflict and then the server starts dying and you panic because you forget that conflict and conquest is the lifeblood of LotC, not the people drinking tea in a tavern once a week. Road to 500.

 

 

They would harass members of the Vale and Haelun’or publically pre and post the war, constantly trying to get them to join Malinor through bullying, OOC pressure, blackmail, and other means. 

 

Again, proof or this is just slander.

 

When they refused, Twi stated their intention to then conquer them. They’d mention this constantly oocly about how they wanted to destroy them. This need to destroy communities and harass their players off the server, is without saying, unacceptable. The harassment of these players and nations, to make them conform to their demands is against our Mission Statement of Roleplay First. By acting with all these ooc plots with no roleplay intention, driven entirely by ego and manipulation, it is clear that they don’t care for any of the other communities and just want to exert OOC pressure onto other players and destroying their communities whilst manipulating their own into being a platform which enables so. This attitude and mindset is counterintuitive to roleplay and one that a player shouldn’t have. Yes, many players would like to see a community die, but this obsession with killing off several landed communities for simple purpose of 'I could', is damning in it of itself.

 

If a nation or group is too weak to defend itself IRP why should staff intervene OOC to protect them? Again, Twi is forum banned so she cannot defend herself here, we only have you accusing and painting her with an ugly paintbrush to go off of, no actual statement from her. What reason is there for us to believe this isn’t just a ploy for admins to justify a hasty decision? Or an effort to stop dealing with constant wars, as we all know the admin in charge of that is tired of them and wants them to end. It isn't a crime to OOCly tell people what your character's intent is. I tell people what Aobh and Nehtamo are going to do or plan to do all of the time. Does me saying my character plans to kill Nephilim make it OOC targeting? No.

 

Thus, the Administration is confident in our decision to issue this indefinite CGV ban, which we had all agreed upon. When being banned for something this egregious, with a ban level this severe, appealing should not even be a thought within a players mind. We hope that far down the line if Twi can reflect on the actions that lead to this and can come to appeal successfully and return to the server with a greater focus on Roleplay, rather than OOC anger and manipulation of their own community and others with an extremely anti-roleplay sentiment. 

 

How often are you confident in something and then your mind changes? It happens all of the time with admin teams. This post, however, and every post before and after it on the matter is a lost cause. Your decision is handed down, however wrong or hasty or biased as it may be, and we may never hear her side or the full truth. Even if you find you are wrong, in the end, just like every prior admin team you will refuse to undo a verdict once issued. This is something that also needs to change, even if it does not apply to the current situation.

 

If you wish to blame her for OOC anger and manipulation then you must also ban something around half of the current populace of the server. You cannot heavy hand her purely for creating an active nation or being a well known player. She should not be the equivalent of a teacher’s child being held to a higher standard purely because of her position as NL. Nor should anyone else for that matter.

 

 

[Werew0lf 12022]

tldr zzzz give me rep zzzz even if the admins are in the wrong i will defend @SquakHawkbecause hes my femboy and i will defend @itdontmattabecause hes best friends with @Milenkhov and I’ll defend @Heerocus he taught me the n word (for legal purposes that means ‘nice’ )and ill defend @ScreamingDingooh wait he’s not admin XD or is he (question mark uWu face)

 

sorry twi and Ryan enjoy ur ban XD 

[sami03 386]

Yeah.. thats admin disrespect and therefore a permban.

 

Nothing personal kid

 

This thread has been locked

[wowj 2809]

11 minutes ago, shartings said:

 

give me rep please @

1 - https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/214493-report-lionhz-voxynoir-drunkpapabear-gmro-tigergiri-ichigomaster9000-mkireheart_-panchoii/?tab=comments#comment-19254792 - https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/214487-lotcs-administration-and-how-to-handle-it/?tab=comments#comment-1925478

3 - https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/214485-the-administration-needs-intervention/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1925477

4 - https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/214496-a-response-to-the-admins-response/?tab=comments#comment-1925496

 

 

 

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[subatomic 1097]

fax

[argonian 12838]

god damnit i hate the story team

 

[ScreamingDingo 16990]

1 hour ago, rukio said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

She should not be the equivalent of a teacher’s child being held to a higher standard purely because of her position as NL. Nor should anyone else for that matter.

 

 

didn't read but I'm going to strawman this single point

 

Nation Leaders should be held to a higher standard of conduct and roleplay because they effect their entire playerbases actions and behaviours with what they outwardly display. If a Nation Leader thinks it's fair game to harass and **** over other playerbases out of OOC spite, the players that follow them also adopt that behaviour. Honestly couldn't care less but all of this drama AND ban is extremely easy to avoid if you simply just roleplay on a roleplay server (lol). Not every NL is taken out for these actions, it's quite rare to see the level that has been achieved since the very start of this plot months ago where the entire coup was clowned with the Disney villain blogpost. 

 

 

 

[L0rdLawyer 2271]

I've rewritten these a few times. I can't say it better than Joel except I did read.

Edited July 14, 2022 by L0rdLawyer

[Nozgoth 2897]

4 hours ago, rukio said:

Objectively, we already know this isn’t true, at least to an extent. How many times has an admin told people with legitimate complaints to cope and seethe in OOC or on the forums? How often have administration let creeps and pests slip through the cracks- such as Leowarrior being allowed to continue playing on a hidden alt?

State of the admins and staff team is honestly pitiful right now and has been for the past year. 

[ScreamingDingo 16990]

1 hour ago, L0rdLawyer said:

I've rewritten these a few times. I can't say it better than Joel except I did read.

Okay ignore what I said bring them back

[Pancho 2527]

1 hour ago, ScreamingDingo said:

Okay ignore what I said bring them back

Based Joel take. Overall, Rukio has put what I feel into actual words instead of just emotions. Easy +1… now I await my eventual fate.

[ReveredOwl 5329]

9 hours ago, rukio said:

They would harass members of the Vale and Haelun’or publically pre and post the war, constantly trying to get them to join Malinor through bullying, OOC pressure, blackmail, and other means. 

 

Again, proof or this is just slander.

this isn't a court of law...

[rukio 8910]

1 hour ago, ReveredOwl said:

this isn't a court of law...

People get banned for slander all of the time for not backing up their claims with proof.