[Aengul] Tabbris, The Aengul of Benefact

[TeaLulu 1783]

39 minutes ago, Wrynntastic. said:

Nope! From what I see, this Aengul - to man, is one of hope. It's an entity to which people praise for a greater sense of well-being and comfort. Perhaps the name made you thought it was a meme, but it was the first thing that came to mind... I wonder why...

It has been stated by the lore team that Aengudaemon lore for new Aengudaemons is expected to be top notch, above average quality. Okay, naming it after yourself is a huge red flag (which also tells me, despite all you claim about it not being playable, you would intend to play it at some point), so I mean good on you for getting that hint and changing it.

 

But to me this lore is not above average or of significant addition to the server. It's another goody-goody aengul that "likes to help" and etc. It's not really interesting. There's no depth to it. Just another way to lead into special snowflake aengudaemon magic, which we have more than enough of.

 

This lore doesn't, to me, add anything of interest or intrigue. It also isn't particularly creative nor does it seem like it took a lot of effort or time invested to come up with it and design it.

[Wrynn 1347]

1 hour ago, TeaLulu said:

It has been stated by the lore team that Aengudaemon lore for new Aengudaemons is expected to be top notch, above average quality. Okay, naming it after yourself is a huge red flag (which also tells me, despite all you claim about it not being playable, you would intend to play it at some point), so I mean good on you for getting that hint and changing it.

 

But to me this lore is not above average or of significant addition to the server. It's another goody-goody aengul that "likes to help" and etc. It's not really interesting. There's no depth to it. Just another way to lead into special snowflake aengudaemon magic, which we have more than enough of.

 

This lore doesn't, to me, add anything of interest or intrigue. It also isn't particularly creative nor does it seem like it took a lot of effort or time invested to come up with it and design it.

I get what you're saying. I mean - yeah perhaps it does look like I want to play it. However I truly have no desire to play such a thing, like supremacy said, I don't even know why an Aengul is an Aengul. So, secondly - before I made the lore, I looked to the other Aengul's posts to see what they were like, and I'm not going to lie, some of them have even less detail than mine. Now, I suppose some of the lore is most likely hidden, and that's why there isn't much on the forums. Nevertheless it's a concept and an idea that can always be improved and expanded upon, that's why I'm responding to each and everyone of the comments to try and get a better sense of what I could do to improve the lore.

 

Lastly! I honestly don't feel that this lore needs to be overly complex. The Aengul himself is a simple being, such as why he is depicted as a man by the descendants. Afterall, I don't expect this lore to make a overly big impact upon the server and it's RP.

[CombatRolePlay 1731]

Sounds like a good idea if done well.

Would be awesome to see technology in the server advance even if its just a little bit

[Sky 0]

I actually like this, huh.

[Dyrr 137]

Looks neat. I think it'd be a nice addition to the server, so +1 from me.

[Corvoo 562]

I approve.

[Chaw 958]

Looks good!

[BrandNewKitten 2789]

1 hour ago, Supremacy said:

TBH, I personally don't care he named it after himself. I really think its hard for non-LMs to write Aenguldaemon lore though... Given the lore isn't public, and no one even knows the actual reason an Aengul is an Aengul. But its an interesting take.

 

If the LMs are using that as a reason to deny people's aenguldaemon lore then whatever is being misinterpreted needs to be expressed to the community. Lore-masters are there to regulate lore. Not keep it locked in a box and impede the player creation of new lore, ya dig? 

 

Unless there is is some plan to reveal it through LOTCs story, make the lore public so people can use it as a proper resource. 

 

"Denied because this isn't how aenguldaemons work/created but we won't tell you how they work." Isn't acceptable in my book if I can be ever so blunt.

 

---- 

to Wrynn,

 

I am not sure if I really like this lore or not but the concept of having more passive deities that don't necessarily have a cult following or an incredibly powerful domain over the mortal realm intrigues me, and allows for subtle character development. So I support! 

 

 

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1042]

I overall like the lore (FINALLY, YEU RTHULU ISNT THE ONLY AENGUL ACTUALLY WANTING TO HELP PEOPLE.) but there is a few things that irks me greatly, and I'd adore to hear whatever rebuttals, or redresses you'd have for such.

 

The idea of an aengul working throughout history, for the genuine improving of descendant kind, is all fine and dandy- yet there comes a question: Why hasnt he been known until now? And if he has been known before now, why havnt we heard about him? I myself fear that this aengul would be introduced via an event character or such who would pop out of nowhere. The terms 'it has been heard and spoke' and such irks me heavlly, because... truly, it hasnt in roleplay.

Regarding this issue, I would suggest possibly editing him to really truly be unknown, yet choosing to reveal himself in the modern times as part of a greater belief or machination for the benefit of the descendants.

 

Likewise, an aengul of simply 'genuine benefactor' makes it hard to define how and what he does. You say planting ideas in the head of descendants, yes, but than that gives EXTREME implications to the abilities and prowess the average aengul could have. While many aenguls have been seen directly speaking, and needing to send visions, this aengul bears the uncanny ability to act subliminally with those that're not connected to him. While I would be fine with such an aengul sending inventive dreams and odd lucid visions to future visionaries, inventors, and innovators, the idea of an aengul being able to literally add to people's thoughts undetected is scary.

 

If this is not the case, and it is genuinely him making things and giving examples/direct items to the benefit of the descendants (for the benefit of descendantcy?) than that causes even further questions, and while the idea of an aengul being the one who created what we know as boots today in a mystical workshop, it leaves even more questions than it does answers about how and what this aengul works with. 

 

AAAANNNND FINALLY:

 

"It is also said that Tabbris enacts his work through certain individuals within the mortal plane. His work carried out through the descendants and himself a-like. "

 

Are these... willing descendants? ARe they his followers? IS it simply his subliminal influence in making the innovators of the world better? Are all innovators those whom work alike him?

 

 

...

 

 

Also, whose saying all this? Theres alot of 'it is said'... Is it this 'They' I've been hearing about?

 

[BonesOfTheEarth 1599]

Someone please explain what this 'naming it after yoursef' is. Wrynn is named Wrynn, not Tabbris. They arent remotely related.

[El Ricktador 1394]

The lore is simple and written without overly complex purple prose. The idea in itself is simple and is presented simply.

 

All lore that is not produced by the player base through direct RP among players should be presented in this way.

 

Simple.

 

So +1 from me Wrynny boy.

[Wrynn 1347]

2 hours ago, Quavinir_Twiceborn said:

 

Sorry for the delayed response! Anyways, I'll try to answer each one of the questions as fully and clearly as possible c:

 

So! As Supremancy said before, I know little to nothing about Aenguls, or why Aenguls are Aenguls etc, and this was an issue that I encountered when I was trying to write the lore. I used the term "It is said", and the like quite a lot because I wanted it to seem as if the descendants had rumored about his possible appearance etc. However, like you said "it hasn't actually happened in rp." That's an issue... You raised the idea that he'd be unknown, and simply works without showing himself to the descendants. I like the idea - as it solves a lot of the problems that are present within the lore. However it guess it kind of defeats the purpose that people would look the the Aengul when good fortune had crossed their path. Nevertheless, I still feel like you raised a good idea, and I suppose it's something I should take into consideration!

 

You also raised an issue with Tabbris being able to "control" the descendants. Now! This is something I'd like to pinpoint. We see many Christians spreading the word of God, and helping the less fortunate, however they aren't necessarily being controlled by God. People may see the Christians as God doing the work through them. It's the same with Tabbris, although the people aren't directly doing it in service of Tabbris, they're doing it perhaps because it's their nature, or they need to look good in front of a certain person. In the end - good fortune, aid and benefact would usually be credited towards Tabbris.

 

And finally (I think this answers all the questions); When I said "They say", "it is said" things like that. I'd be referencing the descendants as a whole I suppose. However this again does link back into the issue regarding the fact that "it hasn't actually happened in rp."

 

I hope I got most of the questions, I'm so sorry if I haven't - but I appreciate the feedback and questioning. Thanks ^-^

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1042]

1 minute ago, Wrynntastic. said:

 

You also raised an issue with Tabbris being able to "control" the descendants. Now! This is something I'd like to pinpoint. We see many Christians spreading the word of God, and helping the less fortunate, however they aren't necessarily being controlled by God. People may see the Christians as God doing the work through them. It's the same with Tabbris, although the people aren't directly doing it in service of Tabbris, they're doing it perhaps because it's their nature, or they need to look good in front of a certain person. In the end - good fortune, aid and benefact would usually be credited towards Tabbris.

 

 

 

BIG THEOLOGICAL THING, THATS ACTUALLY AN ARGUEMENT. LIKE WHOOOOO- LOADED TOPIC.

 

 

But... that begs the question than- what does he actually do?

 

Also- you could possibly have the aengul send a few people a vision saying 'it was me all along! Hey! Just give me a prayer-phone call, and I'll help you out!'

I think the 'IT WAS ME ALL ALONG' thing is alot better (And rather comedic). That Tabbris after being berated by other aenguls who're prancing on about how famous and well known they're- puts his hat into the aengul betting game.

I rather appreciate aenguls doing something due to surprisingly human feelings. And as you noted that this aengul acts with surprising humanity, it wouldnt be far fetched for him to have an little bit of begrudging entitlement for recognition after all these years.

[TeaLulu 1783]

3 hours ago, Wrynntastic. said:

I get what you're saying. I mean - yeah perhaps it does look like I want to play it. However I truly have no desire to play such a thing, like supremacy said, I don't even know why an Aengul is an Aengul. So, secondly - before I made the lore, I looked to the other Aengul's posts to see what they were like, and I'm not going to lie, some of them have even less detail than mine. Now, I suppose some of the lore is most likely hidden, and that's why there isn't much on the forums. Nevertheless it's a concept and an idea that can always be improved and expanded upon, that's why I'm responding to each and everyone of the comments to try and get a better sense of what I could do to improve the lore.

 

Lastly! I honestly don't feel that this lore needs to be overly complex. The Aengul himself is a simple being, such as why he is depicted as a man by the descendants. Afterall, I don't expect this lore to make a overly big impact upon the server and it's RP.

Here's the thing, imo, and based off of past experience of high-up staff wanting to create an Aengudaemon and how it winds up;

 

You can't not have detail here. You can't leave it as overtly vague as it is.

 

You can't really go off the posts Benbo made to explain the Aengudaemons when none of them ever actually had a real "Lore submission" post. The posts Benbo made are for the aspects of those aengudaemons which already exist; Not to try and justify the creation of another one.

 

When someone submits lore, its sort of on that person's shoulders to give, at the least, some suggestion as to what the intent to that lore's acceptance would be. 

 

Your lore is, regrettably, very very very vague as to what you would actually do if it was accepted. Who would be 'enacting his works'? How would they be chosen? What works are they? Do you intend to use this Aengudaemon as the basis for further lore, all of which you will post publicly and have accepted before implementation? The fact there is no really defined "action plan" listed is an issue to me, and part of the reason my initial impression is, "This is just an Aengul for some staff member to play as their personal character."

Aside from the lack of "action plan" for this Aengul, I also have other red flags such as;

- The implication that he depicts and presents himself as a human. For him to be depicting himself at all, someone has to play that character...

-The implication he has always existed, and since the dawn of time has been helping; The fact that people know him and his name implies he has descended and interacted with people very frequently, which is something that, it is implied, would occur if the lore was accepted.

- The fact it is "not uncommon" to hear about his Immortal Plane... which implies people are and have been throughout history, frequently whisked away to his immortal plane, something which is not at all intended to be common among Aengudaemons (to my knowledge) and implies a greater level of interaction.

 

Other issues I have:

The Lore implies he was literally responsible for the invention and eventual dissemination of shoes; Honestly, I don't like this. I don't like the idea that mortalkind is literally incapable of designing simple inventions without Aengudaemonic intervention. I don't like that you seem to be implying that a lot of mundane inventions throughout history would turn out to be the work of this Aengudaemon all along, and oops, looks like the mortals can't tie their own shoelaces without an Aengudaemon holding their hand. It's been well publicized by the Lore team that they don't want nor need lore for mundane things (shoes, clothing, thread, jewelry, food, normal plants, etc). One implication I'm getting, due purely to the vague writing in this lore, is that this Aengudaemon is basically semi-responsible for a lot of 'world-improving' inventions. Like the mortals can't do anything on their own.

 

So, how can you improve? You'd need to provide something of an OOC mission statement and/or action plan dictating what you intend this Aengul to truly exist for. As well, what would be "retconned" to become something this Aengul was responsible for? 

 

You'd need to clarify the following

- Whether or not this Aengudaemon will be playable, and if so, in what function/role and by whom.

- What level of interaction this Aengudaemon would have with mortal kind, and with what frequency.

- What exactly you intend to have done with this lore. Will you be writing further lore and submitting it for approval with this Aengul as the 'explanation' for how the lore came to pass? Or will you just do things and not need to write more lore for those things?

- Will this Aengudaemon be gifting further people with magic Aengudaemon powers? Will people start getting visions? Who is going to decide who gets to interact with this Aengudaemon?

-  Is it going to turn out this Aengudaemon was responsible for any inventions or currently existing daily use items that exist in the world? If so, you need to list them. No one wants this Aengul to be accepted and then it turns out afterwards he claims to be the only reason we have shoes. Or boats. Or Carts. Or the wheel or something. Yes, I'm going far out there and just making a lot of radical assumptions; But I have seen a lot of aengudaemon-based staff abuse in my day, so, I'm preparing for the worst and theorizing that the worst happens; Thats not a personal insult to you, thats just me knowing how this stuff goes most of the time.

- What will you actually do with this Aengul? Interact with players? Do events? Eventlines? Storylines? Use it as a lore excuse for specific items and thats it? (Ala Rasmot, where you can find items he made but never has anyone ever played or met the guy)

 

I'm also cautious based off one of your replies on this thread, which states " Tabbris is essentially a name for the 'Lord' in LotC, who is known to aid the descendants throughout their efforts. Perhaps in roleplay, this could be someone roaming within a desert, dehydrated - however they stumble upon a desert as they come to near exhaustion, they would say, "Thank you Tabbris", "Thank Tabbris." " This is a huge red flag to me. What that says to me, literally right there, is you...want to make an Aengudaemon representation of the Creator. And give the Creator... a name. You intend for players and characters to interpret this Aengudaemon, which originally was named after you, as ....God? I just...no, absolutely not. That's not acceptable to me. Sorry. That tells me you want to have an Aengul just so they can be praised instead of the Lord?

 

All of the above is why I have some severe reservations. We've had a lot of shitty Aengudaemons made in the past. Like, a lot. And the creators of them? Well, they tend to want to use them for their own purposes, or they get super possessive and never let go of them, and sometimes when things don't go their way they threaten to remove the lore entirely or some other such nonsense.

 

I'm cautious at best about this.

 

And Fury everyone is saying that because at first this Aengudaemon was named "Wrynn"

[drfate786 1639]

I fail to see the utility in this. This Aengul does very little aside from "creating" inventions and throwing them at the descendants. -1