Your View - Firearms on LotC

[Hobolympic 1093]

The contention is inherently subjective. Some people want to see guns introduced into the fantasy-setting, others prefer it the way it is now. You can argue that there’s no central theme to the server (I disagree), but the current gun-less fantasy setting is something tangible that is distinct from a setting that includes guns. Lore-inconsistencies and “shitty writing” does not exclude the server from being (at the very least) fantasy themed, nor does it mean people cannot be immersed in the current setting. Hell, it’s right there on the front page; we’re a fantasy-based roleplaying experience. Certain elements, such as guns, absolutely will affect the general vibe and setting of this server, for better or worse, which is what the contention is all about.

 

 

[Arafel 107]

9 hours ago, Jamyei said:

No guns, because they would ruin the medievalish vibe. Already been stated but I thought I'd restate it. Also, cannons would be aight.

 

8 hours ago, Glocky18 said:

No, they have no place on lotc. Simply because this is a /medieval/ fantasy server and I’m pretty sure the majority of the players want to experience that, and not the indutstry revolution. And not only that, sooner or later said firearms will take over the server thus lowering the playerbase... Yes I agree it would be something new, but its not LotC friendly, what will come next? WW1 trench warfare? No thank you I do not want to experience that, and many others would agree with me. 

 

7 hours ago, The_Real_Draegon said:

No, Lotc is a medieval/fantasy themed server. This doesnt belong here, but in one of those gta mc servers. First firearms and then what? Nuclear rockets and airplanes that intercept dragons?

 

7 hours ago, LucaVerheij said:

I believe no, it will be an vibe-killer for the current style of the server. The Medival fantasy-ish theme of the server will be touched while it is the main part why the RP on the server is so good quality and fun. Also if this will be allowed theren where does it stops? Going to space? The techlock is there for an reason, to prevent that the Medival setting will dissapear. 

All of you need to grab google and start reading on what constitutes an actual Medieval Fantasy, why Fantasy as a genre has medieval aesthetics as a staple, how many mainstream fantasy role-play systems include firearms, and when firearms were first introduced in the west altogether.

 

Gunpowder Artillery is a medieval technology. It was introduced in the 13^th century in Europe in the form of siege cannons and hand-held cannons, and later matchlock rifles. The middle ages ended in the mid to late 15^th century. It is perfectly consistent with a “Medieval Vibe”. What you are all trying to argue is that you don’t personally want guns in the setting because you don’t like them and because you prefer an earlier medieval aesthetic (reminder that the Middle Ages lasted 10 centuries), and there’s nothing wrong with that. But please, stop perpetuating this ludicrous notion that firearms break the themes of the server simply because you are incognizant about the genre and tropes intrinsic to it, or choose to ignore the reality that they are compatible with the Medieval themes, even if they were only a part of it towards the end in our world’s history.

[ARCHITECUS 4788]

Challenge: describe what LotC’s “theme” is and explain how it unquestionably excludes what is depicted in these images.

 

 

[jamyei 45]

8 hours ago, Ciaran said:

 

 

 

All of you need to grab google and start reading on what constitutes an actual Medieval Fantasy, why Fantasy as a genre has medieval aesthetics as a staple, how many mainstream fantasy role-play systems include firearms, and when firearms were first introduced in the west altogether.

 

Gunpowder Artillery is a medieval technology. It was introduced in the 13^th century in Europe in the form of siege cannons and hand-held cannons, and later matchlock rifles. The middle ages ended in the mid to late 15^th century. It is perfectly consistent with a “Medieval Vibe”. What you are all trying to argue is that you don’t personally want guns in the setting because you don’t like them and because you prefer an earlier medieval aesthetic (reminder that the Middle Ages lasted 10 centuries), and there’s nothing wrong with that. But please, stop perpetuating this ludicrous notion that firearms break the themes of the server simply because you are incognizant about the genre and tropes intrinsic to it, or choose to ignore the reality that they are compatible with the Medieval themes, even if they were only a part of it towards the end in our world’s history.

Sorry let me correct myself... the medievalish fantasy lotr vibe*. And how did you know that I did not refer to an earlier period in the 10 centures of the medieval period when I said medievalish vibe? At the end of the day, its down to preference to what part of medieval fantasy you enjoy rping, and I respect that. There’s no need to call me incognizant simply because I was less than imaculate with detail in my post, I just had a lot to do so I couldn’t write a lot. 

[seannie 7443]

if only

 

[CosmicWhaleShark 2488]

To respond to the thread seriously since it seems like a surprising amount of people do want this. If firearms get added to the game then I believe there should be an overhaul to how ranged weapons work in general, regarding hits to begin with and where they hit. Not to mention classification of weapon, and pros and cons to each type. Crossbows sort of are aids because everyone treats it like a siege crossbow that gets cranked with a windlass device, as an example. People have been really dumb about them, sorry crossbow bois.

 

Muskets are actually kind of advanced as far as the technology goes for firearms, the trigger mechanism is what makes it unique. Cannons functioned the same as an arquebus, and the matchlock was the father of the musket.

 

People, fundamentally, don’t perform maintenance to their weapons. I don’t think people even go to a blacksmith to repair their swords anymore when the durability falls into orange. Bows remain strung, crossbows never malfunction or wear out, and regarding firearms... Well, odds are it will always be loaded and at the ready at the beginning of every encounter.

 

If there was a flaw in the application of gunpowder during the loading process, a flaw in the metallurgy for the barrel, the ball wasn’t packed in against the gunpowder, etc. It would explode in your hands. Best case scenario the barrel would get blown out.

 

So bearing that in mind it might be nice if, rather than saying yes or no to firearms existing in lotc, the story team considers the functionality of ranged weapons as a whole. This can be done with rolling, with respective downsides to each one. Mainly involving functionality such as loading time, accuracy, and weapons malfunction downsides. You’re basically five google searches away from making something feasible so I’d leave that up to you. But I would encourage matchlocks being the highest form of technology present if firearms do exist because it’s honestly more interesting, considering wet equals death, and it’s probably the most effective form of balancing since I doubt anyone would consider a lead ball to be anything short of lethal.

[ARCHITECUS 4788]

14 minutes ago, CosmicWhaleShark said:

 

Extending an overhaul to magic that allows an option of weaker, faster spells to keep pace with swords and missile weapons would go a long way in these balance fears as well (even though handguns would change nothing in the current rp meta).

[Twinny 1622]

Personal preference, no. I’d sooner get shot with crossbows and bows rather than a firearm.I just prefer the medieval aspect of the server itself.

 

Here’s my thoughts:

 

On 4/19/2020 at 11:43 PM, repl1ca said:

Yes – we are moving forward with the years, so YES TO FIREARMS

 

Yes, we are moving forward with time and thats fair to say, its also fair to say we should be granted newer technologies for everyone to use irp. That being said my issue is the use of the guns irp and I feel like they are going to be powergamed more than your average crossbow/bow. Just because time is progressing doesnt mean that we *need* to jump to guns. There are other things we could think of that would be just as nice of an addition.

 

On 4/19/2020 at 11:49 PM, Borin said:

No. If the staff can’t answer modreqs enough to deal with powergaming etc. as it is you shouldn’t add another thing into the equation for powergaming etc. to happen and increase the amount of modreqs the staff will have to deal with. Added guns = Added stress on the staff that they don’t need, they struggle to answer modreqs properly as it is. ooga booga 1700s irp = 1700s irl!! No. Stop. Go away.

 

This is another thing im concerned with when it comes to roleplaying the firearms. I also agree with this. 1700s irp does not have to mean that it has to match 1700s irl. But the issue is, i feel that human nations could use something fresh, as lets be honest theres more magic amongst elven communities and such and if I have to say so myself i felt that places such as Oren have been progressing icly – and it’d be nice if it extended towards areas such as technology but mayhaps we can do off with firearms

 

On 4/19/2020 at 11:29 PM, Rhodesia said:

Seeing how there’s a split, rudimentary handcannons/handgonnes like this should be implemented.

 

If you get shot with that you are dead. Thats not fair. You can get nailed by an arrow or a bolt and survive – but this thing is lethal dude. Look at the size of it. Not fun.

 

On 4/19/2020 at 11:52 PM, Hanrahan said:

If the Shooter is 10+ Blocks away, roll for Accuracy.

0-10 is a Miss.

10-15 is a Hit.

15-19 is an accurate hit.

20 is a Critical hit.

 

If the Target is at close Range, 2 Blocks away or less, you do not need to roll to hit. Instead, Roll for damage. 

0-10, normal damage.

10-19, high damage.

20 is Critical damage.

 

When you fire a Gunpowder weapon, you must announce over #s 

[!] A Gunshot echoes over the Landscape. [!]

 

 

No, just not the best system for it. I appreciate your effort and the time you took to write out this small system but this thing is a firearm. If I had to suggest something alternative i’d suggest that rolling a natural 1 should mean the device blows up in your hand, a 2 it should jam. Not rolling to hit? Then this should be the case for crossbows and bows. If this was the system then im going to run up to someone after my first emotes and aim right at their head to get an instant shot on my fire emote and even with normal damage they are dead. If a correct system was implemented, and say a firearm was 4 or 5 emotes instead of 3 it’d be an alright system – and would allow people to roleplay them better. After all, this is a msuket/handcannon. It is not a rifle, it’s barrel will not have rifling. It shouldnt be incredibly accurate, it should hold poor accuracy but do big damage.

 

I agree with the gunshot noise though. It shouldnt sound like it has a medieval-silencer equipped if it existed on lotc.

 

---

 

Ive spent a lot of time on servers with firearms, years, and it can really dampen out a lot of other aspects. if you add firearms that takes 3 shots to fire you dent magic a lot. If you quicken magic you dent everything else a lot.

 

If added, please understand theres just as much negatives, if not way more in some cases, than positives to firearms. The system should be done correctly, they should be informed of how to emote it correctly (none of that loads gun, aims gun, fires gun BS) and there should also be something on the lore that explains the injuries for both parties

 

If its not added, well you guys im sorry but theres no pew pew firearms because as much as you want it, a lot of others dont, and it will ultimately cause a lot of issues irp if handled poorly.

 

 

[The Hedge Knight 173]

I think in the end, the mechanics of firearms on this server would be akin to that of magic or crossbow roleplay that we’ve already had for years. It’s honestly just an aesthetic difference at the end of the day. When you consider that most RP is done with an honor code, most people already do well enough following rules. And we have systems in place to deal with people who powergame the use of a firearm. Whether we limit their use and make them OP or, make them an interesting alternative, allowing someone to have pre-loaded firearms that can either make or break their chances in an RP fight I see no harm in it. I for one, think it would be cool to have a universal chart that firearms follow on a roll table. Universal so that everyone has access to these rules and terms of usage, that way we can all govern the RP at hand and call out any issues provided. I would love to be involved in the development of such a system, as I truly believe some cool and wonky scenarios could be had with something so simple implemented.

 

Besides, we’ve had cannons before and Asulon, and even not that long ago. The time should come where we sit down and lay out ground rules for firearms, and make it something fun an interesting for all the stories being forged on this server. Would I like to be shot with a pistol and have it hit some random spot on my body based on a rudimentary roll table? For sure. Would I like to see the powder fizzle out on a low roll? Of course, I now have the next move and all my opponent did was shoot sparks. Would I like to see their gun pop in their hand because they’re inexperienced with firearms and clogged their barrel or even double loaded? Again, of course. It has potential to be great with little effort, or terrible, and a lot of that will be in fate’s hands. Ultimately, that is where I see it being most interesting and fun. 

 

Just a quick thought I’d like to add. Reading through various works of early accounts from various physicians in the past and their memoirs. Arrow wounds were most certainly more lethal. Not just due to the speed in which arrows can be let loose, but also from the fact that arrowheads cut and cause much harder to heal wounds for the human body. A bullet didn’t quite need to be extracted from a wound in all cases, as it was very likely the body would encyst a bullet projectile and cause no issues down the line. An arrow head getting stuck in the body in most cases would cause constant issues. Pus being constant due to the inflammation that would occur from the flesh constantly cutting itself on the jagged arrow tip. 

I could go on forever on that subject, but if you wish to find this information explained in better detail, look up Joseph Howland Bill’s “Notes on Arrow Wounds”. While he wasn’t a “medieval” period doctor, he certainly saw the clash of two different worlds and the effect on said men involved during the time. Keep in mind, this is during the Civil War, most firearms used in this time would be ages better than the ones we contemplate adding due to whatever balance or aesthetic differences people see.

Thanks for reading this old fart’s post. ❤️

[Arafel 107]

16 hours ago, Glocky18 said:

No, they have no place on lotc. Simply because this is a /medieval/ fantasy server and I’m pretty sure the majority of the players want to experience that, and not the indutstry revolution. And not only that, sooner or later said firearms will take over the server thus lowering the playerbase... Yes I agree it would be something new, but its not LotC friendly, what will come next? WW1 trench warfare? No thank you I do not want to experience that, and many others would agree with me. 

The Adunians and I believe to some extent the Dwarves back in Anthos would perform drills involving the digging of trenches and construction of nests from which they’d shoot arbalests and repeater crossbows at their enemies, a tactic that was actually employed in a few battles at the time.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Ciaran

[TheNanMan2000 473]

Medieval weapons, excluding firearms, already provide a huge array of combat-styles and aesthetics for different cultures and people wanting to use a certain weapon for a certain job.  That’s what makes medieval fantasy so appealing, is the array of weapons that handle completely differently.  To give-in to the power creep of firearms is not only slowly paving a path to muskets becoming the standard weapon that everyone uses, which is extremely bland and boring, but is also pointless as we already have enough variety of weaponry. Not to mention how much more variety we have since we can use all these different types of magic

 

[Nug 2011]

inb4 gun application

 

as long as they’re kept to shitty flintlock level and there’s no automatic mana gem powered void gun bullshit im okay with them :’-)

[KeatonUnbeaten 1103]

cannot wait

[tasty_cheesecake 2298]

10 hours ago, Ciaran said:

The Adunians and I believe to some extent the Dwarves back in Anthos would perform drills involving the digging of trenches and construction of nests from which they’d shoot arbalests and repeater crossbows at their enemies, a tactic that was actually employed in a few battles at the time.

 

dwarves employed trench warfare complete with what essentially was the mc equivalent of a polygonal fortress

[argonian 14254]

6 hours ago, TheNanMan2000 said:

Medieval weapons, excluding firearms, already provide a huge array of combat-styles and aesthetics for different cultures and people wanting to use a certain weapon for a certain job.  That’s what makes medieval fantasy so appealing, is the array of weapons that handle completely differently.  To give-in to the power creep of firearms is not only slowly paving a path to muskets becoming the standard weapon that everyone uses, which is extremely bland and boring, but is also pointless as we already have enough variety of weaponry. Not to mention how much more variety we have since we can use all these different types of magic

 

if crossbows don’t drown out every other weapon, it doesn’t make sense that matchlocks would. in pvp they’d be literally identical, and matchlocks have a number of drawbacks to make them far from ideal in CRP(namely, if you’re standing close enough that you’re in #rp range of the guys you’re fighting – which you basically always will be for obvious reasons – then you’re close enough that you’re going to get stabbed before you’ve had time to actually fire the gun). 

 

with that in mind, they’d only add to the variety, rather than diminish it 

 

19 hours ago, Jamyei said:

Sorry let me correct myself... the medievalish fantasy lotr vibe*. And how did you know that I did not refer to an earlier period in the 10 centures of the medieval period when I said medievalish vibe? At the end of the day, its down to preference to what part of medieval fantasy you enjoy rping, and I respect that. There’s no need to call me incognizant simply because I was less than imaculate with detail in my post, I just had a lot to do so I couldn’t write a lot. 

pick whatever century of the medieval era you like, and explain how literally any nation/culture/group in LOTC are like it at all. only humans were ever vaguely medieval, and they haven’t been for a long ass time.