UnBaed 8957 Popular Post Share Posted December 4, 2020 I’m not really one for making threads like these, so I have no idea on how long or short this will be - or if this shall even be effective. But there is an issue on the server that I’ve noticed for a while, it’s been present throughout the entirety of my time on this server; however, I’ve had the fortune of not having to deal with this too often. Though, that doesn’t mean I haven’t had friends go through the struggle, nor does it mean this issue doesn’t exist. What is the struggle? The fear/dislike of RP conflict Now, I’m not calling out a specific community or playerbase on the server. I know this to be an issue everywhere, and is a common fault with newer players that join the server who haven’t had much experience in other role-playing games. I am also not meaning for this post to like, insult anyone who has had a past of outwardly going against any form of conflict on the server not brought to them by someone with a bolded green name. I wish to have a discussion about conflict and its place on the server. Personally, I love conflict; I believe it to be something that drives stories and can help generate more character development. Of course, conflict doesn’t always need to be *the bandit draws his knife and wants to rob you!!* Conflict can be literally anything that can go against your character - the love of their life is interested in someone else; someone has racist or sexist views toward your character; jealousy; ect. The list can go on and on for various scenarios, but how come we don’t see this often? I can understand how many wouldn’t be inclined to generate such conflict on the server, sometimes it’s just not your cup of tea to RP out for your character. But sometimes people avoid RPing “problematic” characters to avoid bringing up conflict OOCly. It’s not an uncommon thing [for me, at least] to hear others OOCly growing irritated whenever something in RP doesn’t go their way or if there’s a character causing issue to them. Rather than purely reacting in RP toward the issue, they complain about it OOCly and sometimes even allow it to affect their own opinion on that player they’re interacting with [essentially taking RP into OOC]. Of course, there is the excuse that some players have a tendency to create RP issues purely to rile up someone OOCly, which has occurred a few times on the server before - but that doesn’t mean that every scenario shall be like that. Still, I feel like if that is ever the case - to still do your best to react purely in RP about the situation, unless it is pure and blatant OOC harassment under the guise of an RP encounter. There is another issue in regards to conflict that I wish to go over, and that is how people react to the players that would wish to try to generate conflict in character - or just RP more villainous, dark characters. Too many players view themselves as the protagonist Again, I am not calling out any specific community or playerbase on the server and I will try my best to avoid mentioning any names in this post, so that no one is targeted or feels as if they’re being targeted. But I’ve noticed this issue to be a problem on the server for a while as well, ever since I had joined the server at the start of Vailor in 2015 [god i feel old but i'm happy to make older players feel even worse by saying that]. I’ve got many friends all around the server, partaking in various RP groups and communities. Some of my friends have, or still RP, more villainous characters that do either dark magic or are more inclined to criminal behavior. I see no issue in them wanting to RP characters like that, I actually think it’s interesting and is a good potential for some fun RP in case we are to ever interact in character. Unfortunately, many of my friends that do that sort of RP have often struggled with it on the server. They often feel like people try to metagame them, to call them suspicious over the smallest of things - or just put them at the worst of advantages so that they won’t be allowed to conduct the RP they want without easily getting caught -- or are just flatout not wanted in a community with their group because of the RP that they wish to do, even if it’s good quality. Most of them have often described as if they feel like they are NPCs and are always meant to die in any confrontations with guards or other players. That is often because many players [in my eyes, at least], have the mindset that they are the “protagonist” on the server. They are the Dragonborn, and LotC is their Skyrim to explore and do their quests in. Anything that is a monster or is “evil” should be killed so that they can continue on their merry way. Many dark mage/creature RPers often hate dealing with others because they feel as if everyone else views them as a Story Team member hosting an event where their characters get to kill an evil wizard or monster and earn a prize. I can understand some of the fear/dislike with conflict on the server. No one wants their character to die or lose anything that they have worked hard for. I feel that to be a fair thing to want to avoid, and I often like to keep that in mind if I am ever to do something against another player in RP. I think of a character’s death to be a last resort to go for in a conflict, since death can often ruin any potential for story development with that person. But that doesn’t mean that a time won’t come where someone will have to die for something, we’re not all lucky. But what are your thoughts about this, what are your experiences with conflict and how do you view it? I think I’m done rambling now and I’m gonna go make myself some ramen. 32 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liv 484 Share Posted December 4, 2020 What! I'm not allowed to think I'm the main character in everyone's story!! Wow. I am angry!! Jk Good ramble. Very interesting. I love conflict when it's a two way street of I may lose or they may lose. Too many people have attempted to power game my persona when my persona is either a orc and they're a human or I'm playing a Golem and they're a random dude with a sword. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security_ 1075 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Yes, this. Overall it’s been a mix of newer raid rules and the community shift, where now 3+ people is considered a ‘raid’, even when you’re just doing general villainy rp. Compared to older rules, such as Athera, where you had droves of dark mages and general raider camps roam freely, allowing for more organic systems of conflict without need of a /modreq hey me and my friends need a babysitter for our whitelisted role play experience. Of course the ROs can consider some interactions to not be raids and whatnot, overall since Vailor the server hasn’t been too accustomed to player villainy and interaction in most cases. Most conflicts are inflated to world ET levels or world wars, with players often being metagamed or OOCly ousted and ostracized for causing conflict. I think it’s slowly gotten better in the recent year, though there’s still more of a push to be done. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengoth 2883 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, UnBaed said: Too many players view themselves as the protagonist Really good post, I think this particular line really should be read by players at least once during this time on LotC as a good way to reflect on how we interact with each other. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slorbin 1774 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Clearly, I am the protagonist. All the other players are quite wrong. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kholibrii 978 Share Posted December 4, 2020 I don't see anything wrong with conflict, it's usually what drives a story, and as you said it isn't something that has to be combat or bandits, it can be something as simple as a disagreement(which I personally think drives a story better than a good bit of combat). Getting into some non-combat conflicts is important to RP, because if you avoid every situation where a conflict may occur, then you are avoiding like 90% of RP. When it comes to avoiding combat based conflict or certain players is where I think our views differ. As someone who doesn't really enjoy CRP a great amount, I do my best to avoid any stressful combat situations by not traveling on the roads, avoiding areas where my characters may get attacked, etc. I also just don't usually have time to deal with a drawn out conflict. I tend to hop on and look around for RP for a few minutes, then both RP and do OOC stuff at the same time, which you can't exactly do in most combat/conflict situations. In the case that I do get drawn into combat I do my best to be polite because having to call in a mod only causes me to lose more time that could be spent on Homework or non-RP related things(like stewardry work and helping new players with questions). I've been in a couple conflict incidents where I've just flat out said "I can only be on for like 45 more minutes before I need to go do X thing, can we take this at a fast pace?" and if it's a good RPer, generally the response is "Yes" or something helpful and positive because we both want a good experience, but there are also incidents where you get a person who will just flat out say "Too bad, you're here till this conflict is finished, deal with it" which can be extremely annoying, and these also tend to be the situations where RP is sub-par. I don't really avoid certain players that often, but there are a few people who I will just flat out not RP with or do my best to stay away from. Generally these are the people who RP for the sole purpose of causing drama, which is driven by OOC issues or as a way to annoy people. You can tell who these people are after a short period of time, from my experience they tend to be the same people who incorrectly RP mental illnesses or physical injuries, become upset of you call them out on anything, or just provide sub-par emotes. If the person is causing issues purely ICly for the purpose of group IC growth then I'm all down for it, it's usually fun, but when it's driven by OOC issues it's a no from me. An additional note that I think is worth mentioning-- a large majority of the people on the server use it as an "escape from reality" and a stress reliever, so if someone is having a bad day or week, I completely understand not wanting to get involved in conflict and just wanting to chill, because I'm like that every once and a while too, but it shouldn't be on the other people involved in the RP to cater to what you want, if you don't want conflict, then avoid it, don't force others not to create it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarsies 6036 Share Posted December 4, 2020 I AM the LORD of the CRAFT Based though 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDanecker 858 Share Posted December 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Security_ said: without need of a /modreq hey me and my friends need a babysitter for our whitelisted role play experience. That was good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukio 8910 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, UnBaed said: Too many players view themselves as the protagonist That is often because many players [in my eyes, at least], have the mindset that they are the “protagonist” on the server. They are the Dragonborn, and LotC is their Skyrim to explore and do their quests in. Anything that is a monster or is “evil” should be killed so that they can continue on their merry way. Many dark mage/creature RPers often hate dealing with others because they feel as if everyone else views them as a Story Team member hosting an event where their characters get to kill an evil wizard or monster and earn a prize. I am literally the protagonist and all dark magic roleplayers are just side quests in my goal for ultimate power. Jokes aside, yeah, playing a morghul ******* sucked because everyone views themselves the heroes of the story and refuse to lose because of it. I try to view killing dark things/non ET entities (at least in recent times, I know I was bad about outright killing in the past) as a last resort, besides its so boringly final. There's no character development for either person if they just get PK'd after one or two encounters. More fun to have it be an ongoing hunt/whatever the word is, so long as they're not out there PKing people for bullshit reasons and ruining those people's fun by extension. Edited December 4, 2020 by rukio 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmeepicus 3942 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Opened cause I thought this was a meme/shitpost. Needless to say I was disappointed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sham404 464 Share Posted December 4, 2020 I think its important to be distinct in that people should not see themselves as the protagonist of the server but there is nothing wrong with seeing yourself as the protagonist of your own story. The distinction probably is difficult for newer players or people who are new to roleplay. I should not expect everyone on the server or anyone I interact with to treat me as the hero or the protagonist, but it is entirely fine for me to play my character as the hero of their story. An example of this is Edric, my own character. He has gone from a village blacksmith to killing a hellhound and an ice witch, to him, this is an incredible achievement that no one from his home would ever believe. Thats why he calls himself Witchslayer, and used to call himself Houndsbane. In RP, Edric brags about this because to him its a huge deal. Ooc, i dont expect people to care, nor be impressed. Nor am i impressed when people ooc say "its not impressive Sham. My character 4 maps ago killed FIVE witches" or something of the like. The entire point here is that my character is not the protagonist of the server, so doing this should be a big deal and make him feel like he is the protagonist of something - his life. But yeah, aversion to conflict is crazy. I prefer the term drama to conflict though. Drama drives interesting roleplay. Tavern rp can be dramatic, war rp can be dramatic. Anything can be dramatic, but getting upset over others creating dramatic rp, or avoiding dramatic rp, is just going to lead to boring experiences for a large number of players. Some players might be happy to spend hours sitting in a tavern talking about the weather, or running their bread shop and chatting with customers, but many people Roleplay exactly because they are tired of the mundane, or slice of life experiences of their lives and want something dramatic. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayna Star 167 Share Posted December 4, 2020 16 hours ago, UnBaed said: Most of them have often described as if they feel like they are NPCs and are always meant to die in any confrontations with guards or other players. Big upvote here from me. This is why I value capture/jail roleplay so much more than immediate death for villainous characters. There's still the chance for punishment, but it actually does something towards character development for both parties. You could even insert the chance for certain guards to be more willing to take bribes than others, which is an incredible angle to develop guard characters from imo. There's even other options, like having a hand removed for thievery, which are far better than simply death (even death by CRP, to say nothing of PVP). It couldn't hurt to be at least a bit more creative with our punishments. After all, there's so many interesting ones out there in history! This leads back into the protagonist problem you mentioned, where good always triumphs with a clear immediacy. Yes, it's generally good for good to triumph, but delayed response makes a story better. Darth Vader didn't die in his initial confrontation with Obi-Wan because his story wasn't ripened yet. His story developed through several Episodes of confrontation, chasing, and other interactions with the "good guys". If we could find a reasonable way to translate that sort of manhunt into guard/villain interactions, I think the stories of both sides would be all the more developed for it. And, in the end, if the crimes become piled high, trial and public execution in the square is far more interesting and engaging than lopping someone's head off on the side of the road. These sorts of sentiments are a tale as old as time from me, but I still hold out hope that even small changes could help these sorts of rp interactions go more smoothly and be more rewarding for both sides. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fact Core 511 Share Posted December 4, 2020 I don't know people, scars are hot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lubbie 205 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Good post dude. Right on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonesOfTheEarth 1598 Share Posted December 5, 2020 On 12/3/2020 at 6:39 PM, UnBaed said: Most of them have often described as if they feel like they are NPCs and are always meant to die in any confrontations with guards or other players. Thought I don't play anymore I do like to keep my eye on the forums. In regards to this.. There was once a time where a dark mage was enough of a threat that instant death on capturing was justified, because capturing one was no easy feat. Likewise, in this same time, a voidal or holy mage was diverse and useful enough to be actively sought out. You fought magic with magic, not brawn - unless in greater numbers. Now, I genuinely believe a good swordsman could beat any magic wielder. I'm not saying what should or should not be the case, I'm not saying to go back to the old days, but it's important to realize that the view on what you do to a dark/villainous character has never changed. The change occurred in the strengths and skills of those playing these characters, and the increasing boldness of those non-magic folk who are realizing... That these great threats aren't threats any longer. Perhaps not an active thought in their mind, but one slowly invading everyone who comes to face these once-threats. TLDR; Something hits different about shades when half the playerbase use their tendrils for an uwu tail/erp and half try and be dark overlords. They stop being scary. Other magics too. Not to mention the mechanical restrictions as magic over time slowly becomes more streamlined and less guidelined. For villainy as a whole, I've never really fallen into trouble with anyone I've ever actually been a villain towards. People unrelated to it have complained, called names, tried to say it was "poor rp" despite never being present to begin with. But anyone I've ever actually threatened, swung a sword at, or even killed, generally tends to compliment the RP and thought behind the actions. In my brief tenure as a shade rampaging around Atlas, everyone that died to him PK'd before I stopped due to people unrelated to the RP not wanting me to play a villain that killed people. I bitched out, and to those who would do the same I say - If you are a villain, direct your audience to those who appreciate it. If others complain or come for you, damn them and continue on your way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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