Jøkul [FA]

[Diogen 3072]

4 minutes ago, Calise11 said:

I remember reading a comment on a previous post about the FW's saying that you had previously created lore that's "passable" But not enjoyable. This looks very fun for all party's. This sounds like it will massively mitigate the issues into teething into this aspect of roleplay within the coven, allowing people to learn about the lore as their persona progressively grows creating a more effective and better quality roleplay for everyone. Appreciate how much time you've put into creating something everyone can enjoy. 

thank you, appreciate it
i know what post you're talking about though, it was a reply to the current fw lore, which wasn't written by myself

[PanicZealot 206]

How has this not been accepted? this is amazing stuff

[Operator_Bugman 221]

I like this +1 would be a snowman

Though I do have to ask, does it have compatibility with other CAs? How would that work, I see it doesn't specify other magics that it's compatible with so can a blood mage be one, does it have the capability to overlap with frost witch magic as well?

[AmericanSniper52 225]

Can male descendants be afflicted with this weaker version? Since frost witches are supposed to be female (according to my limited knowledge of the CA) I am wondering if this one will be able to be done to non-female descendants. 

[Diogen 3072]

14 minutes ago, Operator_Bugman said:

I like this +1 would be a snowman

Though I do have to ask, does it have compatibility with other CAs? How would that work, I see it doesn't specify other magics that it's compatible with so can a blood mage be one, does it have the capability to overlap with frost witch magic as well?

so in the lore, it's stated that when you become fjarriagua, your FA goes zzz, although you may return to the FA should you dislike the CA during the period that you're allowed to reverse it (1 week), otherwise you'll remain as a CA without your FA

there's also a redline that states you have to be a descendant and have a non-lesser soul in order to become jokul, meaning that musin cannot be one, while descendant races (human, elves, orcs, halflings, dwarves) may become jokul.

there's also a redline that states the compatibilities/incompatibilities with magics, barring deific for obvious reasons
-The Jøkul becomes incapable of learning any Deific / Holy magics except Seer. Any other magic is allowed.

i'll see how i can make it easier to find & read if you had difficulties with it and clarify it some more

1 minute ago, AmericanSniper52 said:

Can male descendants be afflicted with this weaker version? Since frost witches are supposed to be female (according to my limited knowledge of the CA) I am wondering if this one will be able to be done to non-female descendants. 

yes, theres a redline that clarifies males can become jokul

[ThatFunkyBunch 2066]

23 minutes ago, Operator_Bugman said:

I like this +1 would be a snowman

Though I do have to ask, does it have compatibility with other CAs? How would that work, I see it doesn't specify other magics that it's compatible with so can a blood mage be one, does it have the capability to overlap with frost witch magic as well?

For Dios sake imma drop this  idea here. 

 

 

Jørkul is incompatible with the  following magics and CAs

Shamanism and any shamanism feat. 

Paladinism

Templars

Animii and Homunculi

Naz (?? Nub sure since FW is bound to a god and Naz sell theirs to a demon) 

Machine Spirits (maybe idk **** all about tech priest larping)

4 minutes ago, Diogen said:

so in the lore, it's stated that when you become fjarriagua, your FA goes zzz, although you may return to the FA should you dislike the CA during the period that you're allowed to reverse it (1 week), otherwise you'll remain as a CA without your FA

there's also a redline that states you have to be a descendant and have a non-lesser soul in order to become jokul, meaning that musin cannot be one, while descendant races (human, elves, orcs, halflings, dwarves) may become jokul.

there's also a redline that states the compatibilities/incompatibilities with magics, barring deific for obvious reasons
-The Jøkul becomes incapable of learning any Deific / Holy magics except Seer. Any other magic is allowed.

i'll see how i can make it easier to find & read if you had difficulties with it and clarify it some more

yes, theres a redline that clarifies males can become jokul

Would Naz be compatible? 

I'm a nerd. Naz is deity magic

 

Disregard 

Also Druids nub care about undead me thinks cause we got tree Liches? (I die on this hill Tree Lords are just wood made Liches)

[Privet 1840]

5 minutes ago, Diogen said:

I feel like you haven't read the lore at all
The effects of losing warmth 1) disables their casting, 2) makes them look obviously dark-adjacent, 3) makes them go mentally coo coo to the point of wanting to touch literal sources of fire in a desperate attempt to regain warmth

1. The disabling of; manipulating and conjuring ice, summoning an ice sword, temporary mending, and helping in rituals, an understandable defect, but two of these can be easily supplemented by carrying a sword and alchemical remedies (which affect them normally), and since going below 3 warmth causes further defects, they may hesitate to even use these spells because they can be supplemented.
2. femurlord often walks around in a decrepit, smelling, old man disguise with sagging flesh, but if you immediately called him out as darkspawn you would likely be called a metagamer because there's no proof beyond him being a decrepit, smelling, old man with sagging flesh. Sure, your eyes glow, but if someone considered that horribly frostbitten person anything but a horribly frostbitten person, and tried to kill them, they would likely also be called a metagamer.
3. I don't think mental disabilities and self harm are much of a defect, which begin once they go below 3 Warmth, as most darkspawn roleplay the former already, and the latter a nuisance when they already need to steal the warmth of others (which can be considered a chore in itself). Utilizing 'Cold Touch' which while the same emotes as other Undead draining spells, can be considered stronger simply because the drained person forgets everything leading up to the interaction. I don't believe this generates roleplay beyond simple encounters where people are attacked and drained, leaving them to roleplay feeling cold and frostbitten, which they don't have to seek healing for, besides any injuries inflicted in the combat leading up to that. 

There is no mention that Jokul have to wait any amount of time to learn and cast spells between their connection/transformation, and it is not described how they learn their spells. There is nothing stopping a frost mother from doing as I described, connecting a Jokul, using them for Disperse, and disconnecting them. Also, forcing someone, if disconnected, to forget everything that happened while they were a Jokul? How is this meant to generate roleplay?

I don't believe this piece is entirely necessary, even as a 'trial period', as most of these abilities can simply be supplemented by other things, and mainly serves as an avenue to complete frost witch rituals without the need of other frost witches, considering one frost mother would be able to make a total of FIVE Jokul.

[Diogen 3072]

3 minutes ago, Privet said:

1. The disabling of; manipulating and conjuring ice, summoning an ice sword, temporary mending, and helping in rituals, an understandable defect, but two of these can be easily supplemented by carrying a sword and alchemical remedies (which affect them normally), and since going below 3 warmth causes further defects, they may hesitate to even use these spells because they can be supplemented.
2. femurlord often walks around in a decrepit, smelling, old man disguise with sagging flesh, but if you immediately called him out as darkspawn you would likely be called a metagamer because there's no proof beyond him being a decrepit, smelling, old man with sagging flesh. Sure, your eyes glow, but if someone considered that horribly frostbitten person anything but a horribly frostbitten person, and tried to kill them, they would likely also be called a metagamer.
3. I don't think mental disabilities and self harm are much of a defect, which begin once they go below 3 Warmth, as most darkspawn roleplay the former already, and the latter a nuisance when they already need to steal the warmth of others (which can be considered a chore in itself). Utilizing 'Cold Touch' which while the same emotes as other Undead draining spells, can be considered stronger simply because the drained person forgets everything leading up to the interaction. I don't believe this generates roleplay beyond simple encounters where people are attacked and drained, leaving them to roleplay feeling cold and frostbitten, which they don't have to seek healing for, besides any injuries inflicted in the combat leading up to that. 
 

1. they r flavor spells with not that much of a benefit really, making them going mentally insane and risking revealing their nature is good enough of a drawback for them to summon an ice sword instead of pulling a steel one out of its sheath which can also melt by fire

2. i dont see how dissing femurlord proves any point in this argument. 'yea this one guy screams metagamer even though he looks undead so if you guys look obviously undead i'm gonna get banned'. why are we comparing an old man to a frostbitten ghoulish creature with glowing eyes?

3. the drain ability OPTIONALLY allows the removal of memories following the death memory loss mechanics because i personally believe that murderhoboing people is no bueno as a spook and offering them an alternative by keeping them alive and causing slight memory loss is a much better alternative. pretty much every other dark magic has some form of memory removal of the likes.


 

Quote

There is no mention that Jokul have to wait any amount of time to learn and cast spells between their connection/transformation, and it is not described how they learn their spells. There is nothing stopping a frost mother from doing as I described, connecting a Jokul, using them for Disperse, and disconnecting them. Also, forcing someone, if disconnected, to forget everything that happened while they were a Jokul? How is this meant to generate roleplay?

no tiered system as it's just a lowly feat my guy. they learn spells through a TA holder, as how every magic works.
also from the previous conversation hours ago (idk how long) there was a limit added of 1 week per jokul cursed meaning that its not just a hassle but a waste of time, the connection and instant disconnect thing is a rly weak argument. the memory loss thing was clarified afterwards and we decided on just having the identities of their kin stripped from their memories and the likes. it's essential, as jokul is pretty much a trial period while also serving as a new niche to those wanting to stay within the FA to help sort things out. there were many instances of people getting the CA then dipping, or others that get the CA, enjoy it for a week or two, then change their mind and start complaining to me and to the ST begging to be reverted. jokul fixes that

 

Quote

I don't believe this piece is entirely necessary, even as a 'trial period', as most of these abilities can simply be supplemented by other things, and mainly serves as an avenue to complete frost witch rituals without the need of other frost witches, considering one frost mother would be able to make a total of FIVE Jokul.

you can stop believing then

[Agy 326]

41 minutes ago, Privet said:

There is no mention that Jokul have to wait any amount of time to learn and cast spells between their connection/transformation, and it is not described how they learn their spells. There is nothing stopping a frost mother from doing as I described, connecting a Jokul, using them for Disperse, and disconnecting them.

 

Ignoring all the endless issues that you'd need to get over, like explaining to the ST why you want to revert your FA 3 seconds after you get it as well as the fact that you'd most likely need to wait atleast a day for it to be accepted to begin with, so that they can go ahead and actually do said ritual

....What ritual do the Fjarriagua even have that would make such a thing necessary? All their rituals are unspeakably barebones and serve to be there only for the sake of maintaining the CA itself, like healing or reviving dead Fjarriagua or for a MArt, none of which could ever result in any problem in this extremely specific non-issue?

And it's not like this differs much with Normal Frost Witches,  a Mother can still go around and "just curse five random people", the method by which Frost Witches and the Jokul are created is exactly identical, the only difference is that the Jokul get vastly less perks in exchange for being able to exit it.

 

So by your own argument, what's stopping a Mother from just mass producing Fjarriaguas and doing the same thing?

 

41 minutes ago, Privet said:

2. femurlord often walks around in a decrepit, smelling, old man disguise with sagging flesh, but if you immediately called him out as darkspawn you would likely be called a metagamer because there's no proof beyond him being a decrepit, smelling, old man with sagging flesh. Sure, your eyes glow, but if someone considered that horribly frostbitten person anything but a horribly frostbitten person, and tried to kill them, they would likely also be called a metagamer.

Also this is...A really specific example? Like are you criticizing Femurlord for having an End-Game CA that can put on a disguise? Also why Femurlord specifically??

And then complaining as to why a person with an FA, a normal FA gets to not be instantly murdered as a Dark Spawn by wanna-be Monster Hunters that want to skip all the RP of proving that they are infact conspiring with the flesh eating Witches, so that they may go instantly to having their glorious (and usually incredibly one-sided) fight against what is otherwise a normal person because they just looked at them?

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Agy

[Althea_ 331]

Cold be hand and heart and bone. . .

 

Any respectable witch must have their accursed serfs and pawns! I also like the warmth system.

 

+1

[Privet 1840]

 

41 minutes ago, Diogen said:

1. they r flavor spells with not that much of a benefit really, making them going mentally insane and risking revealing their nature is good enough of a drawback for them to summon an ice sword instead of pulling a steel one out of its sheath which can also melt by fire

2. i dont see how dissing femurlord proves any point in this argument. 'yea this one guy screams metagamer even though he looks undead so if you guys look obviously undead i'm gonna get banned'. why are we comparing an old man to a frostbitten ghoulish creature with glowing eyes?

 

you can stop believing then

34 minutes ago, Agy said:

Also this is...A really specific example? Like are you criticizing Femurlord for having an End-Game CA that can put on a disguise? And then complaining as to why a person with an FA, a normal FA gets to not be instantly murdered as a Dark Spawn by "Monster Hunters"?

 

 

You admit the spells are mostly useless. . . .
Your mistake is that I'm criticizing femurlord directly (who I am friends with, you don't need to take offense for him), and not the Dark CA community in general.

Once again, no actual response to the fact that these are supplements for frost witch rituals, which apparently are also useless according to Agy, except for healing, reviving, or for marts (which btw, is what I hear to be the main complaint of playing a frost witch, that it is difficult for frost witches to be revived because of a lack of frost witches). If all of these things are useless and a series frost witches have decided to leave the CA after a couple of weeks, either your filter for creating frost witches isn't strong enough, or people find playing in the CA tiresome or unenjoyable, which I would recommend a rewrite to the main magic rather than an addition.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Privet

[Diogen 3072]

2 minutes ago, Privet said:

 

 

You admit the spells are mostly useless. . . .
Your mistake is that I'm criticizing femurlord directly (who I am friends with, you don't need to take offense for him), and not the Dark CA community in general.

Once again, no actual response to the fact that these are supplements for frost witch rituals, which apparently are also useless according to Agy, except for healing, reviving, or for marts (which btw, is what I hear to be the main complaint of playing a frost witch, that it is difficult for frost witches to be revived because of a lack of frost witches). If all of these things are useless and a series frost witches have decided to leave the CA after a couple of weeks, either your filter for creating frost witches isn't strong enough, or people find playing in the CA tiresome or unenjoyable, which I would recommend a rewrite to the main magic rather than an addition.

i dont know if ur purposefully misunderstanding any of the responses or genuinely cannot seem to comprehend what is being said

[Agy 326]

1 hour ago, Privet said:

Your mistake is that I'm criticizing femurlord directly (who I am friends with, you don't need to take offense for him), and not the Dark CA community in general.

 

Ah, my bad then! Ehehehe

 

As for the topic of Dark CA's being able to disguise, by making Dark CA's incapable of disguising themselves, you are very much condemning them to only being capable to RP within their lairs and along with other members of said CA and that should they ever exit their hidden lair, they would be subject to being ruthlessly hunted down on the second of being seen.

 

Which is a terrible idea given the fact that this is a RP Server, the goal is to drive interactions between players, with said Dark CAs usually having the motivation, tools and means of taking the role of an Antagonist within the stories created within this server and by making them incapable of disguises you end up creating a situation that the only type of RP these beings know is being CRP machines thus in a sense encouraging only Murderhoboing and a somewhat more unique Bandit RP. And individuals that only do this type of interactions, should be the last to ever get their hands on a Dark CA.

 

anyways, ignoring all that this is an FA and as such there is literally no reason for this discussion to be happening about them

 

1 hour ago, Privet said:

(which btw, is what I hear to be the main complaint of playing a frost witch, that it is difficult for frost witches to be revived because of a lack of frost witches)

 

Actually no, this is hardly the only complain or even one of the more notable complains about being a Frost Witch.

But yes, for a Dark CA that is required to constantly fight in order to sate its Feeding mechanics, it is so laughably easy to Soft-PK a Frost Witch into needing to be revived (that I've actually never seen an instance of one dying in a way that does not  cause it.) by a Frost Mother and an accompanying Frost Witch as well as an entire Female Corpse that was killed specifically within the last 12-hours, which is less of an issue of needing enough members to do the ritual and more of needing to gather a hunting party to go murdehobo some random character to revive a single person.

 

Suffice to say, not a lot of encouragement for risk taking, for Dark CA, which as a whole has been as you, yourself say:

 

1 hour ago, Privet said:

people find playing in the CA tiresome or unenjoyable

 

The Frost Witches have been on Death's door for as long as I've known it has existed, by that I mean the entirety of this year (with it being apparently no better before even then)
There are so many disgusting issues, outright ridiculous mechanics and an absolute lack of any proper tools to generate RP whether it be within a coven itself or with the server itself other than just straight up murderhobo-ing, often needing to depend on entirely different FAs and MAs to keep yourself from going insane and with a lore so underdeveloped that in order to run a Frost Witch coven you quite literally need to create one from the ground up in order to be able to achieve any manner of RP or motivation other than "KILL ALL MALES".

 And to top it all off, the fact that the ST have not only done nothing about it, but have infact argued that there is no issue to begin with while striking down any attempts to salvage it until a rewrite is able to be created.

And unfortunately

 

1 hour ago, Privet said:

which I would recommend a rewrite to the main magic rather than an addition.

 

You can't make a rewrite happen without said CA's community.
In addition, the Jokul funnily enough were originally part of the most recent denied rewrite of the Fjarriagua

 

Personally, I completely agree with you on this, to make the Jokul as interesting as possible, it would have been best to have had paired them up with the Rewrite so that the Frost Witches had anything of actual substance for the FA to make use of, as things stand any perceived hollowness and general lack of in-depth mechanics that the Jokul may have, not only expertly reflect but is the direct result of the current state of the Frost Witches.

 

As it is right now, the only thing that having the Jokul around shall accomplish is to allow the existence of "Fjarriagua" that don't need to deal with the endless ordeal and subsequent death of said persona that being the actual thing leads to, which can then keep the CA alive so that it doesn't get shelved forever and never returns.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Agy

[megavoltar 1110]

https://youtu.be/lkTHRdZzl1o?si=KEoeY-PPXBkfPM75

[Werew0lf 12024]

13 hours ago, Diogen said:

also who goes through the trouble of cursing people for an FA, making them join a ritual, then have to go through the entire ordeal that is having to disconnect them afterwards and contact the ST to keep them up to date on their FA? that's so mindblowingly stupid i didn't even think of it as a possibility

It’s not mindblowingly stupid, it’s very likely to happen. People on this server abuse lore. 
 

I believe that if you’re going to add a mechanic which sustains them, such as warmth, it should have actual detriments which isn’t “hur dur they wanna touch fire and go a bit loopy and mental”. If I got turned into a frost creature and had full warmth, I think I’d still go insane regardless of losing “the warmth thing mechanic”. 
 

Other than that, good luck.