the case for banning homophobia

[Privet 1840]

54 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

orc brain

if we banned different races in roleplay there would be no need for racism

[satinkira 5921]

Just now, Privet said:

if we banned different races in roleplay there would be no need for racism

 

orc brain (do another one)

[Poor_Fellow 812]

2 hours ago, satinkira said:

My position is clear: we should flat-out ban all forms of real-world prejudice from the server.

Then be ready to say goodbye to conflict and turn the server into a huge hugbox.

You want to play a peasant who hates nobles and wants to lead a revolution, or a pompous noblewoman who's afraid of the masses because she's never left her castle? Nope, that's classist. Let's ban feudalism while we're at it—it's basically slavery!

You want to play a 100 or 6-year-old soldier? Sure, no one will stop you or show concern for your character's health. That would be ageist.

Has your nation been butting heads with that neighboring nation for decades? Sorry, can't be mean to them anymore. That would be nationalist of you.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. Let's stop being afraid of conflict. There's hundreds of ways people can deal with this stuff IC. Stop trying to police people's roleplay.

[satinkira 5921]

1 minute ago, Poor_Fellow said:

Then be ready to say goodbye to conflict and turn the server into a huge hugbox.

You want to play a peasant who hates nobles and wants to lead a revolution, or a pompous noblewoman who's afraid of the masses because she's never left her castle? Nope, that's classist. Let's ban feudalism while we're at it—it's basically slavery!

You want to play a 100 or 6-year-old soldier? Sure, no one will stop you or show concern for your character's health. That would be ageist.

Has your nation been butting heads with that neighboring nation for decades? Sorry, can't be mean to them anymore. That would be nationalist of you.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. Let's stop being afraid of conflict. There's hundreds of ways people can deal with this stuff IC. Stop trying to police people's roleplay.

 

the key difference between banning homphobia and banning the above is that you are probably the first person to even think of the above. there is virtually zero chance of any of the above being banned nor policed because they are key themes of fantasy narratives; homophobia definitively is not

[Poor_Fellow 812]

3 minutes ago, satinkira said:

there is virtually zero chance of any of the above being banned nor policed because they are key themes of fantasy narratives; homophobia definitively is not

You clearly haven't ready many fantasy books, then.

[satinkira 5921]

Just now, Poor_Fellow said:

You clearly haven't ready many fantasy books, then.

 

I've read more than enough to know that it isn't needed. You're being foolish; it's utterly insane to argue that homophobia being banned will lead to nobles being gotten rid of because of 'classism'. Point me to the crowd of people advocating for anything you just mentioned and tell me with a straight face its likely to happen

[Rigorous 1548]

there are already rules that guarantee you can ban people for poor faith role-play

 

the two extremes to this argument of "the scrolls [catholicism] say no" or "why would you rp this anyway!!!" are so stupid

 

if somebody is bleeding their homophobia into rp, gather evidence and report them (this has been done in the past with other bans - people have been banned for these things repeatedly by the mod team on an ad hoc (necessity) basis, because surprisingly despite the corruption that does exist in certain staff groups, staff still overwhelmingly care about keeping lotc a safe and regulated place)

 

that being said, the erasure of racism, homophobia, etc, is just not doable - that is, unless you want a massive craft mega city wholesome chungus server relatively detached from reality, in which case keep going, we're almost there (more forum posts will make it a reality OMG!)

 

the weird neo-minecraft skinheads are ******* cringe but the pissbaby crybaby freaks are genuinely just as bad with how much they try to witchhunt every innocuous statement somebody makes

 

racist rp that is done on trite terms (an irl basis for irp racism) is already pretty much banned so long as you report it

 

instead, everybody involved in this situation looks like some chronically online Cronenberg mutant who is incapable of having a nuanced take on anything. Water is wet, racism sucks, homophobia sucks (all true)

 

that's why you message people you're rping with amid crp, villainy, or what have you, and maintain a steady understanding of other characters' OOC boundaries

somebody is homophobic to you irp? murder them or prosecute them, and if it's oocly driven just report them

 

thank you

 

tl;dr

actually communicate instead of farming reddit gold on the forums, nothing of substance happens here except creative writing

also i cant be fucked to use grammar wow thats so zany and original haha!

[Poor_Fellow 812]

I think it's better to stop fooling around and stop posting rep farms. It won't get you points with the mods for your staff application.

[satinkira 5921]

1 minute ago, Poor_Fellow said:

I think it's better to stop fooling around and stop posting rep farms. It won't get you points with the mods for your staff application.

 

I would urge you not to dismiss the main post as a rep farm (read it please)

6 minutes ago, Rigorous said:

that being said, the erasure of racism, homophobia, etc, is just not doable - that is, unless you want a massive craft mega city wholesome chungus server relatively detached from reality, in which case keep going, we're almost there (more forum posts will make it a reality OMG!)

 

I don't think that that the removal of irl-based racism and homophobia will result in a megacity hugbox; the current most successful and engaging form of villainy and evil is being purported by the Necros atm and the removal of homophobia/racism certainly won't stop them. I don't see why homophobia being removed would make LotC any more safe IRPly against the vast multitudes of Darkspawn nor why it would lead to a mega city? Oren isn't being held back by homophobia

[Rigorous 1548]

4 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

I would urge you not to dismiss the main post as a rep farm (read it please)

 

I don't think that that the removal of irl-based racism and homophobia will result in a megacity hugbox; the current most successful and engaging form of villainy and evil is being purported by the Necros atm and the removal of homophobia/racism certainly won't stop them. I don't see why homophobia being removed would make LotC any more safe IRPly against the vast multitudes of Darkspawn nor why it would lead to a mega city? Oren isn't being held back by homophobia

 

I've already dismissed everything you have to say. It is frankly very disingenuous to suggest that there aren't negative elements in storytelling that characters are intended to surpass throughout their journey. There is no reason a gay player should have to undertake homophobic story elements without consent for sure given the nature of how triggering it can be, but this new idea of just blanket banning things because people want to be safe in a video game where people perform in-character ethnic cleansing and murder regularly is just glaring cognitive dissonance.

 

Again, racist & homophobic content is already banable when done in an inappropriate context, namely where it transcends the IC/OOC barrier that's in place.

 

Whether it's you or the TradCath weirdos on here is not of a consequence to me, none of you care to encourage dynamicism in the slightest, it's all the same scripts you guys are writing trying to prohibit one thing or another because you lack the common sense to understand that many forms of RP have a time and place.

 

[wolfdwg 1497]

2 hours ago, satinkira said:

 

thanks to the church intervening and having executive authority in all types of human canonist rp beyond norland, its a bit difficult to ignore it

I don’t understand why people don’t have a backbone anymore. Instead of doing something about what they don’t like in roleplay they immediately go to the forums and try to get it whatever aggrieves them removed due to a perceived OOC prejudice. Have some ambition in rp and do something to change it. It’s basically how the Canonist Church was formed since it was a schism. 

 

If you think someone is attacking you for your OOC, real life sexual preference or skin color, REPORT THEM. This server is not a medium for OOC political discourse, this is a game in which acts as a roleplay medium for our community.

 

[rukio 8910]

As my bf's little femboy and an avid gay larper/rper "No." 

[satinkira 5921]

10 minutes ago, Rigorous said:

 

I've already dismissed everything you have to say. It is frankly very disingenuous to suggest that there aren't negative elements in storytelling that characters are intended to surpass throughout their journey.

 

where on earth did I do that

 

10 minutes ago, Rigorous said:

Whether it's you or the TradCath weirdos on here is not of a consequence to me, none of you care to encourage dynamicism in the slightest, it's all the same scripts you guys are writing trying to prohibit one thing or another because you lack the common sense to understand that many forms of RP have a time and place.

 

I'm of the belief that dynamism can take place without reference to real world prejudices; I've read plenty of fine stories that don't have a hint of racism nor homophobia. That isn't because they're whitewashed to be happy and fluffy - to be sure, brutal, villanous and terrible things can and should still happen - but instead, they deal with the fantastical and the medieval whilst simultaneously avoiding topics without worth.

I echo your point about communication. I echo your point reporting it when it comes along, but I simply disagree about the worth these niches of RP provide in contrast to the potential damage and usual uninteresting nature of them

 

5 minutes ago, wolfdwg said:

I dont get why people don’t have a backbone anymore. Instead of doing something about what they don’t like in roleplay they immediately go to the forums and try to get it whatever aggrieves them removed due to a perceived OOC prejudice. Have some ambition in rp and do something to change it. It’s basically how the Canonist Church was formed since it was a schism. 

 

If you think someone is attacking you for your OOC, real life sexual preference or skin color, REPORT THEM. This server is not a medium for OOC political discourse, this is a game in which acts as a roleplay medium for our community.

 

 

A character of mine is currently attempting to reform the Church, but they've not in the matter of gay rights - and to be honest the Pontiff saying mid-diplomacy 'sorry I can't continue people are screaming at me on Discord' made me lose all faith in any sort of roleplay-first mindset the Church may claim to have. Blanket-banning is by no means my first instinct (and has never been, I would add) when it comes to matters akin to this

[Kholibrii 978]

I think that @ScoutTheWitchreally summed up the core question that needs to be asked, what is lost if homophobia were to be banned from LOTC? Does what is lost, if anything, outweigh the benefits of having a community that is fostering a open and welcoming environment for people of all walks of life. 

 

There are a million in world ways to discriminate against someone that doesn't relate to serious real life discrimination. I don't see anything that is lost by taking away homophobic roleplay. One could argue that it limits a character's "flaws" but is being a bigot isn't a creative flaw, but even if you are basic af, removing homophobia doesn't limit you from playing a bigot who hates elves or humans who speak with a different accent/language, or someone with red hair(the true villains).

 

Also just because the server removes homophobia doesn't mean you have to run around waving a pride flag. You can just go about your roleplay how you normally would, I doubt most people supporting homophobic roleplay were even doing homophobia RP before this topic blew up, so it's not going to change anything. You can continue to be homophobic in real life, I personally don't give a damn whether some random person on a mineman roleplay server supports me, nor should any other queer person. I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life outside of lotc or what sort of personal morals you should have. 

 

With that being said, I'm not a big supporter of outright banning homophobic RP, I think it's much better for individual communities and the server as a whole to foster an environment where it is less acceptable rather than being not allowed at all. I think the approach to homophobia should be similar to sexism, in that it has become less acceptable roleplay rather than being outright banned(to my knowledge IRP sexism isn't banned, it just is less common now). There are still people who have storylines involving sexism in consenting, mutual RP, but it shouldn't be forced on outside parties who finding it extremely discomforting. Similarly, if a group of consenting individuals want to tell a story involving homophobia then they should be able to, but their homophobic roleplay shouldn't effect large swaths of players who are made extremely uncomfortable by the roleplay.

[sergisala 2794]

I think homophobic roleplay should be strictly forbidden when it constitutes harassment or discrimination towards an LGTBQ+ character.

 

For example, it should be allowed for someone to criticize in roleplay homosexuality or call it a sin (especially if the character that says that is a priest who adheres to the dogmas of the Canonist Church or another religion in the roleplay) but attacking, harming, torturing or killing a character in the roleplay for the mere sexual orientation or gender of that character would be a discrimination that should be strictly forbidden in the server rules, because otherwise this would encourage the creation of a homophobic culture that would inevitably lead to traumatic episodes of harassment and discrimination against players who roleplay as LGTBQ+ characters.

 

At the end of the day, it is the duty of the Staff to ensure that none feels harassed or discriminated in the server, and the server should be a safe place for everyone.