An Open Dialogue on One Specific Slur

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

imo using stuff like 'darkie' or 'coal people' is just trying to find a sneaky loophole into inserting a hard r in a way

[Cobbler 618]

1 minute ago, __WaterFox__ said:

You might want to rethink your point of view. This isn't a problem of tough to swallow content this a problem of lotc's history with racism. The people from that time knew what they were doing calling dark elves an IRL slur and they knew what they were doing specifically targeting dark elves. It was never about the fantasy racism.

Never said that people haven't been racist on LOTC, there will be racist people in everything in life which is terrible. I think LOTC does already a very good job at curving the problem that exists. The people from that time that are racist are surprisingly mostly banned or left. If we want to ban the word in question then sure, we can ban it. Though it questions what else we're banning going forward, since we're bringing into question the morality of what should be banned and what shouldn't be. Why should skin-colored slurs be banned and not genetic slurs? I work with height impaired people all the time and if I called them a midget to their face they'd report me and I'd be out of a job. Yet I see it being paraded around this comment section as an appropriate slur to use towards dwarves. I don't believe midget should be removed, this is merely an observation. Though you're trying to argue that certain words can't be used because people will take offense to them out of character, or you're trying to make the argument that the person using the word is infact racist or bigoted in real life. I will stand by the statement that this is a roleplaying issue.

[Hunnic 348]

I don't believe we should ban the term spook. I understand Darkie- its rather self explanatory, it can be used offensively, people don't like it- alright give a warning to who ever uses it, continued use results in ban.  However spook makes sense, ghosts spook, they are spooky. "Spook" may be exclusively tied to North America as a slur. 
I just found out about it through this thread that it was used offensively. So thank you, I learned something today, but I also learned people are getting too riled up over this. 

It's not the end for LotC, or the world. We blacklist darkie, itdontmattas ruling on the report is done and finished, we don't look back at that. I think it was a good ruling but negardless

Let's not tear each other up over some poor quality RP.


Also just find it WILD that @RIGOR (mod btw) pretends to be some kind of Knight of Justice and then proceeds to use a slur. Other than that, Mod team is doing good.

[MailC3p 1159]

6 minutes ago, Hunnic said:

Also just find it WILD that @RIGOR (mod btw) pretends to be some kind of Knight of Justice and then proceeds to use a slur. Other than that, Mod team is doing good.

 

Lol, what Slur did they use?

[satinkira 5942]

Just now, MailC3p said:

 

Lol, what Slur did they use?

 

check the quote in my previous comment

[MailC3p 1159]

2 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

check the quote in my previous comment

Honestly, as a white dude, I feel like Cracker is the least 'slur' slur that exists, if someone called me it i'd just laugh 

[Mickey 57]

Real life slurs should never be used in an RP server or AT ALL for the matter. Usage of such degrading terms "in taste" is not acceptable. There is no way to do so. Slurs are slurs for a reason, and the fact that this behavior was brushed off in such a manner also makes Moderation look worse than they already do. How can you use a slur "with taste"? By separating yourself from it? Easy for someone to do when they've never had to deal with something of the sort. 

 

It's ridiculous that this is a "open conversation" instead of it being an important and enforced rule not to use real life slurs in RP. Made up ones that fit the server? Fine. Made up fantasy world, made up people, made up slurs for different races. However, an actual slur that is harmful to a real individual who could have already dealt with this before in their life? Absolutely not.

 

Why is it that people like this are given safe spaces to makes distasteful comments and get away with it? It's almost like Moderation wants the decline of LoTC and the reasonable side of the player base. The usage of real life slurs should NEVER be a slap on the wrist.

 

Deflecting or shifting the blame doesn't help either. No side was right when using harmful terms to either person. As the Mod Admin, you should know that placing blame on the opposite is only going to cause more problems. Stop being the fuel to the fire and actually do something to put it out.

[terms 42]

4 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Real life slurs should never be used in an RP server or AT ALL for the matter. Usage of such degrading terms "in taste" is not acceptable. There is no way to do so. Slurs are slurs for a reason, and the fact that this behavior was brushed off in such a manner also makes Moderation look worse than they already do. How can you use a slur "with taste"? By separating yourself from it? Easy for someone to do when they've never had to deal with something of the sort. 

 

It's ridiculous that this is a "open conversation" instead of it being an important and enforced rule not to use real life slurs in RP. Made up ones that fit the server? Fine. Made up fantasy world, made up people, made up slurs for different races. However, an actual slur that is harmful to a real individual who could have already dealt with this before in their life? Absolutely not.

 

Why is it that people like this are given safe spaces to makes distasteful comments and get away with it? It's almost like Moderation wants the decline of LoTC and the reasonable side of the player base. The usage of real life slurs should NEVER be a slap on the wrist.

 

Deflecting or shifting the blame doesn't help either. No side was right when using harmful terms to either person. As the Mod Admin, you should know that placing blame on the opposite is only going to cause more problems. Stop being the fuel to the fire and actually do something to put it out.

I mean , as a part of one of the sides I definitely don't feel as though I was in the wrong. Its RP based in a medieval time where that has been normal over the years. People aren't getting away with anything because it is RP. The words are directed towards the persona. If that offends you it is your problem as in a way they aren't even talking to you, they are talking to your persona.

[SoulReapingWolf 2258]

14 hours ago, ScreamingDingo said:

I expect the Mods to know where that line is and to be able to monitor/protect the playerbase effectively. 

 

You expect too much.

[terms 42]

43 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

imo using stuff like 'darkie' or 'coal people' is just trying to find a sneaky loophole into inserting a hard r in a way

Well in a way this is very offensive. As someone who was apart of this situation and having a great time doing some realistic RP for you to call me racist is very rude. And so i reply with a question , if you were walking down the street and you saw a green person would you find it wrong to call them something with resembles their colour? For example grass? If you said to them hello grass people would that be cause for an uproar that we are experiencing? The truth of the matter is that our characters had good RP reasons for our comments and people are blinded by racism in our world and arent thinking about rp.

[DeusVult 564]

12 hours ago, ChaoticallyCheshire said:

I think many will agree that at least pcswifts apology was not sincere at all. Instead of going "my bad dude I didn't know. I won't use it again," (which was the response I got from a player 20 mins later who used the same slur) he instead went "so can I not say tree fucker then too???? Where's the line then?" 

 

Tree fucker is not a racial or ethnic slur. He used darkie twice and yes I will admit I should have probably messaged him but I was honestly just so shocked with that blatantly racist interaction. I messaged the player after him and they were far more understanding then him, they even asked me what would be an appropriate remark to make that isn't an irl slur. 

 

He then again showed zero remorse when his response to my own response was simply 'roleplay'. 

 

Both examples you provided were you with people you knew. The bank one while I agree was not bad from the sounds of it, at least would have been at least part of your own ethnicity if it had been bad. By that (I am getting tired so my thoughts are getting a bit blurred) I mean you specified you are jewish and got infractions for being antiemetic. The other was you with itdontmatta who is someone you know. 

 

Pcswift did not know us, we did not know him. Neither of the two groups that interacted last night were friends, this was not us joking around so I find your examples to be invalid and not relative to the argument at hand. 

It's true, I'm a huge racist who hates black people so much I find dark elves to be an equivalent and hate them.

 

But since I've caused this whole situiation I guess I should open up a little about myself

 

I was born into a jewish/catholic family, but I am extremely jewish looking. Because of this a lot of people, especially in my little neighborhood excluded me for reasons I literally didn't understand when I was younger. I had no friends for a very large part of my childhood because of this, and I had no understanding of why people didn't like me. 

 

I won't share much more but I've been a victim of racism, and I don't really hold any long-built grudges or hatred toward those people, in fact I'm actually friends with one of those people today. Anyways, point is I'm literally not a racist, and I think this whole debate is just a virtue signaling contest to see who can do it harder. It's cringe!

 

An In-roleplay slur derived from dark-elf dark-e, makes sense. And as for people who don't think dwarves should be racist against skin color

-He's a frostbeard, and frostbeards are the 'outcast' of dwarven clans, and don't share the same ideas they do

-Dark Dwarves are born from a dark elf and a dwarf, which violates Yemekar's teachings

-Dark Elves are cursed with black skin because of a crime they committed, so reminding them of that is a real easy insult

-my character was there to literally start trying to steal from people, so of course dehumanizing his victims would make his job easier

[ULTRAMIDI 258]

As me old man used to say, “Those with the biggest opinion, are usually those with the least knowledge” so if you’re going to be stumbling over a thing used IRP that most people haven’t heard in use IRL, then either get every single color reference banned or go scream into a pillow.

[hemomancy 2851]

If this server can barely get rid of groomers and p-dos I do not think they have the ability to remove racism.

 

But to try and actually contribute, be more creative with the slurs?? Have fun with it, irl is boring enough.

[__WaterFox__ 631]

1 hour ago, Cobbler said:

Never said that people haven't been racist on LOTC, there will be racist people in everything in life which is terrible. I think LOTC does already a very good job at curving the problem that exists. The people from that time that are racist are surprisingly mostly banned or left. If we want to ban the word in question then sure, we can ban it. Though it questions what else we're banning going forward, since we're bringing into question the morality of what should be banned and what shouldn't be. Why should skin-colored slurs be banned and not genetic slurs? I work with height impaired people all the time and if I called them a midget to their face they'd report me and I'd be out of a job. Yet I see it being paraded around this comment section as an appropriate slur to use towards dwarves. I don't believe midget should be removed, this is merely an observation. Though you're trying to argue that certain words can't be used because people will take offense to them out of character, or you're trying to make the argument that the person using the word is infact racist or bigoted in real life. I will stand by the statement that this is a roleplaying issue.

I'm saying that using irl slurs ig is bad and to be honest I do not care about blanket bans on all potential ic slurs relating to skin color, just that if we know a word is a slur we should really get it the **** out of LoTC's lexicon. I added in a bit of context surrounding those words to back up them being racist and how the introduction of these words most assuredly came from a racist place. In this thread I also think people  are either demeaning the power of slurs or just don't understood in how it affects people whom the slur is used against. A slur isn't just an insult, it's an insult rooted in violence. Using myself as an example, someone calling me a ***** is very different than calling me a ******. If someone calls me a ***** I'm just going to be annoyed and think someone needs to go touch some grass. If someone calls me a ****** then I am genuinely going to be concerned for my safety. These type of words are easily identified, people who just don't know can be educated, and more importantly slurs just do not belong on lotc for any reason. This is not complicated and people need to stop acting like not using slurs is such a hard thing to do.

 

Edit since filters is on: one was a word for a female dog and the other a slur against gay people

Edited August 15, 2023 by __WaterFox__

[chacmul 274]

5 hours ago, esterhase said:

[ An aged man, face so embossed by wrinkles and the patina of time that you can only discern that the grim reaper has forgotten about him, holds a tome before you. His robe hangs limp at his wrists, threadbare and loose — possibly older than the man himself.]

 

 [ After blowing the layer of dust from the tome's leather jacket, you look upon its gilt title. ]

 

"The Big Bad Book of Slurs"

 

[ Durst you open the book of every slur you are not allowed to say on Lord of the Craft? ]

 

> [ Yes. Burden yourself with the knowledge of the forbidden and let the Gods judge you for it. ]

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

> [ No. This is enlightenment rightfully forbidden by the divine.]

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The book disappears in a puff of gravedust.

 

 

A... Ledger of Oblivion one might say, reeking of sewage with a small paper tissue stuck to the front cover... with a hint of Tutti Frutti chewing gum...