[✗] [Playable CA] Zar'akal — Kings of the High Hells

[Unwillingly 11176]

2 minutes ago, Islamadon said:

I know I'm about to 🤓 but I think the Deific Corruption should affect Templars in a different way to explain the thwarting of their connection, if any. Maybe it causes them to become irrationally angry and confused? Courage is kind of the whole basis of Templarism and Malchediael himself was in Moz RDM'ing demons without a care in the world. By pushing a loss of courage, it counteracts the best defense a Templar has when arguably, Lore-Wise, Templars should be the hard counter to Inferi above any other Dark CA

this is fair, deific corruption was written in a way that was meant to sort of be antithesis to the "niche" of each magic. "courageous templar turned craven > druid attuned to nature's balance hears corruption itself > paladin emboldened by xan's light temporarily thwarted of his warmth" were mostly the visions I had. I'm not as familiar with holy magic as I wish I was while writing these, so tried to reach out the best I could for paladin and templarism especially. however I'm definitely open to reworking this to something more appropriate for lore and request of templar players and can explore more ideas before this makes it into review

 

12 minutes ago, Islamadon said:

I fear setting the groundwork for a Dark > Holy relationship - with any ability - will lead to another Lore Arms Race, causing other magics to take inspiration from a set precedent.

not to be like "erm ackshually" but after we received feedback for the original write, we were advised to consider more unique holy interactions.  so this mostly comes from the suggestion of management and my own favor towards unique lore interaction in general. I was partially around for this era of lore arms race in maybe 2017-2019 but my memory of what the sphere of lore/lore criteria was like at the time is fuzzy at best admittedly

[FlemishSupremacy 4930]

Lore looks great, though I do have a concern with the addition of orc strength.
Way back when, orc strength was removed from Azdrazi for, presumably, balance reasons. This CA has access to more powerful spells than Azdrazi and has orc strength ontop of that, which would probably make them a bit too much of a powerhouse.

I understand this is an endgame CA, and thus signicant power should be expected, but the same applies to azdrazi, with not too dissimilar of a transformation to boot.

 

Other than that, it pwetty good!

[ClassyDryad 1733]

10 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

The best weapon against this King, however, is the elusive substance known as Thanhium. Wounds wrought from Thanhium can render a Zar’akal’s casting inert for [3] emotes, and prevent them from shifting between their Facade and their true form.

 

I don't think thanium as listed should be described as a weakness. Since they are less harshly effected than every other magic and ca is by default, it is actually a resistance to thanium not a vulnerability. If they are supposed to be weak to this material they should be weakened as others are (for the rest of the encounter) or have some additional unique detriment when hit by it.

[Wizzar 481]

Epic +1 

[DISCOLIQUID 1963]

um don't get me wrong but aren't these zarkle guys a bit evil?

[Unwillingly 11176]

4 hours ago, FlemishSupremacy said:

Lore looks great, though I do have a concern with the addition of orc strength.
Way back when, orc strength was removed from Azdrazi for, presumably, balance reasons. This CA has access to more powerful spells than Azdrazi and has orc strength ontop of that, which would probably make them a bit too much of a powerhouse.

I understand this is an endgame CA, and thus signicant power should be expected, but the same applies to azdrazi, with not too dissimilar of a transformation to boot.

I'm not opposed to being held to the same standards as other CAs - I'll go ahead and jot this down among the other critiques and discuss nerfing their strength to peak-race instead of peak-orc, ty
 

3 hours ago, ClassyDryad said:

 Since they are less harshly effected than every other magic and ca is by default, it is actually a resistance to thanium not a vulnerability. If they are supposed to be weak to this material they should be weakened as others are (for the rest of the encounter) or have some additional unique detriment when hit by it.

Can you elaborate on this part? I'm not quite following how being unable to cast for 3 emotes following a Thanhium attack is a resistance. Is there a specific area of Thanhium lore you refer to that I'm missing?

[Turbo_Dog 1432]

Question regarding the interactions between them and salt. If they were to have a broom or any sort of way to move it without touching it such as a air evocation ring could they get past the salt that way?

[ClassyDryad 1733]

2 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

Can you elaborate on this part? I'm not quite following how being unable to cast for 3 emotes following a Thanhium attack is a resistance. Is there a specific area of Thanhium lore you refer to that I'm missing?

 

Thanhium essentially disables all spellcasting/magical abilities for the rest of the encounter and an undefined length of time afterwards, and by redlines this always applies unless a magic/creature specifically states otherwise.

 

In this case it only applies for 3 emotes, not the rest of the encounter, hence they are resistant to the effects of thanhium compared to the baseline.

 

It's like if a creature could be burnt by fire but only suffered burns of a degree less than what a descendant would. You wouldn't really call them weak to fire. I'd recommend either just saying they are effected the whole encounter, or add an additional unique downside to them getting struck by it.

[Unwillingly 11176]

2 hours ago, Turbo_Dog said:

Question regarding the interactions between them and salt. If they were to have a broom or any sort of way to move it without touching it such as a air evocation ring could they get past the salt that way?

We wrote it in a way that prevents bullshitting your way through it by just putting on gloves or sweeping it away, meaning that in order to pass one you'd need to use another actual player instead of NPCs or the like. Salt as a weakness im hearing people aren't a fan of, so there's a chance we'll be replacing it with something else more unique before it hits lore reviews. 

 

31 minutes ago, ClassyDryad said:

 

Thanhium essentially disables all spellcasting/magical abilities for the rest of the encounter and an undefined length of time afterwards, and by redlines this always applies unless a magic/creature specifically states otherwise.

 

In this case it only applies for 3 emotes, not the rest of the encounter, hence they are resistant to the effects of thanhium compared to the baseline.

 

It's like if a creature could be burnt by fire but only suffered burns of a degree less than what a descendant would. You wouldn't really call them weak to fire. I'd recommend either just saying they are effected the whole encounter, or add an additional unique downside to them getting struck by it.

Okay, I see what you mean now. I'll go ahead and add this to our feedback notes and try to get a changelog out within a couple days. Ty!

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

Seer lore specifies that Zar'akal are incompatible. What changes have you made here to make them compatible since you're listing them as such?

[lemonke 1873]

52 minutes ago, Cloakedsphere said:

Seer lore specifies that Zar'akal are incompatible. What changes have you made here to make them compatible since you're listing them as such?

I'm pretty sure it was incompatible due to previous zar'akal taking all the slots. Otherwise their incompatibility(alongisde the one of the Zar'ei) made little to no sense.

 

Also, on a side note @Unwillinglywhilst other CAs don't have orc strength, some of them do have other means to gather such, like the olog/form of the azdrazi, their wights with their bullshit and so on

 If you really want to change it with the average and ever seen peak strength, perhaps i'd suggest to an ability to muster some raw strength that goes beyond the peak strength, reaching the orc one.

[Sykogenic 1284]

23 minutes ago, lemonke said:

I'm pretty sure it was incompatible due to previous zar'akal taking all the slots. Otherwise their incompatibility(alongisde the one of the Zar'ei) made little to no sense.

 

Also, on a side note @Unwillinglywhilst other CAs don't have orc strength, some of them do have other means to gather such, like the olog/form of the azdrazi, their wights with their bullshit and so on

 If you really want to change it with the average and ever seen peak strength, perhaps i'd suggest to an ability to muster some raw strength that goes beyond the peak strength, reaching the orc one.

You are indeed correct, that is why Seer was listed as compatible in this submission. We’re looking into it to make sure there’s no other compatibility issues beyond just slots. 
 

Physical strength is something on the list of things to see if we can tweak to make it work more efficiently and be more consistent with similar lore pieces so we’ll def take a look into what you mention 🫡

[lemonke 1873]

27 minutes ago, Sykogenic said:

You are indeed correct, that is why Seer was listed as compatible in this submission. We’re looking into it to make sure there’s no other compatibility issues beyond just slots. 
 

Physical strength is something on the list of things to see if we can tweak to make it work more efficiently and be more consistent with similar lore pieces so we’ll def take a look into what you mention 🫡

All good! Seer is fine imo since it could open the doors to many things and idm the orc strength thing, it's moreso a suggestion since other CAs do have crazy ways to achieve orc strength, if not better. I would say the CA is somewhat more balanced than many regardless of the passive strength.

 

Good job with it and thank you for listening to my suggestion!

[Sykogenic 1284]

26 minutes ago, lemonke said:

All good! Seer is fine imo since it could open the doors to many things and idm the orc strength thing, it's moreso a suggestion since other CAs do have crazy ways to achieve orc strength, if not better. I would say the CA is somewhat more balanced than many regardless of the passive strength.

 

Good job with it and thank you for listening to my suggestion!

I don’t personally see an issue with orc strength either, especially considering Orcs can be Zar’akal. If we were talking Olog+ strength I might get it but hey it is what it is I guess.

 

We understand not everyone feels the same way, so we’re open to feedback and whatnot. We’ll see how other community members and the LT feel and hopefully find something that works. 

[Papa Rock 387]

"They will find themselves as strong as an Uruk now" - "a Naztherak, matching the peak strength of their original descendant race"

I don't understand, does this mean outside of casting a spell, they are as strong as an Uruk, but while casting they are at the peak of their race?