[✓] [Magic Lore] Malchediael's Radiant Templars

[Islamadon 4429]

28 minutes ago, xMuted said:

I AM A BIT CONFUSED:

 

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-Sadly, all of the dogma in this current iteration still seems a bit up to interpretation in my opinion.

-Vigorous Blow.
With this current range, you explain it as a 'wave', but I am still a bit confused with how that works, can you jump this wave, does this mean if you are in the 4x3 range you are automatically swung by a heavy hammer? Where does it hit? If i Vigorous Blow at your chest, does that mean the heavy hammer swing hits there?
What does a 'heavy  hammer' mean, a heftier Bob the builder's hammer? A one-handed battle hammer? or a full on warhammer?
If I have a Carbarum weapon, why would I ever Vigorous Blow at point blank instead of just stabbing them thrice.

I agree with the over-reliance on Vigorous Blow for Templars, but I feel like nerfing it is justified, but we do not get anything back. I will cover this more on what I dislike.
 

PERSONALLY, NOT A HUGE FAN.
 

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-We nerfed Vigorous Blow because of our over-reliance on the spell, which is justified.
However, in my opinion we relied on it quite a bit because it was our ONLY offensive spell, these changes are nice but now we are lacking a spell that is reliable for one-target attacks.
I would personally not limit the movement speed whilst charged, and allow us to combo the attack on a singular target, and have them be affected by whatever strength your weapon is, and have the heavy hammer hit afterwards, after your normal attack.
Now in close up melee range, I would not do anything else then regularly attack, and in groups I would now be a liability due to the Touch of Jophiael. I would like to see an extra offensive option now that Vigorous Blow got nerfed, which I feel would be justified due to the drawback that The ToJ is, and the fact that we now take up three-magic slots.


-Fervent Flare changes.
I have never participated in a CRP where Burst Body was overbearing, and overly strong. Nor have I ever heard people complain about it when I CRP'ed with them using it. I do not feel it deserved the huge nerf that is an extra emote-count.

-Touch of Jophiael.
I agree with the fact we now have a drawback, however it feels a bit too much for me, especially as someone that often participates in big group CRP's.

TLDR:
I do not mind many changes, but with the nerfs I feel as though this makes us a bit too much of a liability in group fights, without enough reward to back it up. Especially since our only offensive option got nerfed, and can now hit allies without us getting a single-target option in return, however I am a huge fan of everything else, especially the new aesthetics, they seem awesome.

If anyone wants me to elaborate more, feel free to ask in DMs.

With Regards to "I Am A Bit Confused"
- Fair critique that Vigorous blow might a bit vague. You swing and an AOE attack shoots out with a range of 4 blocks and a width of 3 [same as standard combat, maximum of 6 if you walk 2 blocks forward]
- A heavy hammer is a heavy hammer - I.E., swinging a sledgehammer. I can lift Bob the Builder's hammer with one hand - it's not that heavy. I can change "heavy hammer" with "sledgehammer" if we want to be pedantic.
- If you have carbarum weapons you can absolutely strike independently of vigorous blow, but not everyone has carbarum nor should we be amplifying the DPS potential of a metal that already slices through armor and swords.

With regards to "Personally, Not a Huge Fan"

- Vigorous Blow is NOT the only offensive spell. Furious Flame gives any weapon you are holding the properties of aurum - the ability to add damage amplifiers to Dark CAs and to hit ghosts. Templarism is a melee magic - you should be in melee range. Standing off to the side indefinitely charging your attacks before waddling forward defeats the whole purpose of being a melee magic - you can just fight and get 3x the attacks in as you previously said.
- The movement speed was already limited to 2 in the current iteration; I am not a fan of allowing one attack to be stacked with another because it borders on independent summons. For each enemy you are attacking they are dealing with only 1 attack, not 2, but your attack can hit up to THREE. If you have a proposed additional combat spell, I'd be willing to hear it and possibly implement it.
- Indeed, you would be more of a liability in a group fight. It's a proposed hinderance that forces you to rethink strategy as opposed to no-brain fighting. It also encourages Templars to stick together so that they have one another's back. If you wish to no brain fight, you can start RDMing when you take too much damage IMO. 
- From my experience Burst Body gives people very little opportunity to react and, given that alchemical potions and other blinding spells require [3] emotes now, the proposed change keeps it in line. Not only does Fervent Flare have the same emote count, but it has an AOE effect and a considerable range - far more potent than a standard enchantment or alchemical potion. It's not a massive nerf.


 

[creamynoteblock 2426]

3 hours ago, Islamadon said:

• Templarism occupies [3] Magic Slots.

 

NOOOOOO MY MAGIC STACKING NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Jentos 6883]

 

 

3 hours ago, Islamadon said:

My prior comment is my "proactive" solution, as in - its how we'd have to handle it in the future. But as a "reactive" solution, IDM letting the current people keep their compatibility like the recent Kanidrazi situation. They'll just be apparitions.

im willing to have kanidrazi severed if it means bringing down ppl who stacked both druidism and templarism 

[Lojo613 1420]

OKAY just **** up the whole magic why don't you > : (

[Child Neglecter 2138]

make it 5 slots

(you won't)

[warlord of filth 7714]

10 minutes ago, Jentos said:

 

 

im willing to have kanidrazi severed if it means bringing down ppl who stacked both druidism and templarism 

a world of classes and archetypes rises above the generation of Jack of all trades weirdos

 

smile

[milksoda 719]

rad 

[Turbo_Dog 1433]

19 hours ago, Islamadon said:

Banner must be smeared with the blood or ectoplasm of an enemy

Does it have to be fresh blood (within 3 ooc hours) or how old can this blood be?

[Ainulindalen 175]

15 hours ago, Jentos said:

 

 

im willing to have kanidrazi severed if it means bringing down ppl who stacked both druidism and templarism 

Based

[Damnit_Delmar 1067]

Honesty this seems like a dope rewrite, glad to see it becoming more of a main magic, and seeming less of a side thing. I've got no complaints, +1

[Islamadon 4429]

3 hours ago, Turbo_Dog said:

Does it have to be fresh blood (within 3 ooc hours) or how old can this blood be?

Good point, will clarify on main post. Im thinking same standard time as Trophy, [5] emotes.

[Laeonathan 3976]

Neat

[Terry 1859]

Bit of a pre word before I get into this, I'm not going to pretend that I am a lore enthusiast or one that knows what they're talking about in regard to things such as this, but I just wished to state a personal issue of mine.

 

Overall, I believe it's a great piece. Cleans things up and elaborates and improves. I don't want anyone to think for a moment that because I say I have issues with this means I don't like it.

 

That being said, I'll jump into my main reason. Incompatibility with Druidism. I mainly wish to know why, considering it has been an accepted part of Templarism for a little less than 3 years with Bhased's version. I would understand if Malchediael was not subjected to fighting in the heavens in a mindless state, but now he is. Why would he wish to say no to any who are willing to be courageous and face any challenge head-on, least of all a druid protecting the wilds from any and all sorts of danger?

 

I won't lie, working towards becoming a Druidic Templar has been a goal of mine for longer than I care to admit, so I simply wish to know the reason for change. Both OOC and RP, should there be one.

 

On 7/19/2023 at 5:33 PM, Islamadon said:

The unfortunate truth is that Druidic Templars are a paradox in that they hold multiple deific connections, when Malch would more than likely say "no lol".

 

Other than, I do truly think it's a great piece. Solid work!

 

[LatzMomo 2088]

I normally don't post on these, but it's something that directly effects me, so I will. I had been planning with others to start a sect of Templars for some time now and some of us are druids, this wasn't a spur of the moment thing, but something that's been in talks (Both OOC and IRP) for months now, so it is incredibly disappointing to learn our plans might be thwarted just as they're starting to actually come to fruition.

It was always explained to me by the templars in our group that Malc didn't really care about worship and just wanted to give his blessings to courageous fighters, even if they had some other magic or not. The Aspects are the same way and they don't really care if you dabble in other magics so long as you serve their purpose, of course there are incompatibilities like voidal magic and dark magic. I guess I just don't really see why Malc would say 'no lol' as long as you serve his purpose and embody his ideals.

 

I also am not sure the exact definition of magic stacking, but to me it always seemed like if you had two magics that stacked and compounded certain abilities, like a spook with a bunch of dark combat magic also using translo to teleport, making their combat capabilities stronger. Druid magic doesn't really have much combat capability, sure some of the spells /CAN/ be used in combat, but they're not really intended to be and the massive emote count makes it hard to justify it as well, it's more of an event magic used for cleaning things up like the ando alur hollow and stuff like that whereas templar is a melee combat magic, so I am not really sure if the magics actually serve to enhance each other in any way. (I am also not sure if this is even a consideration for why druid and templar are not compatible anymore.)

I guess I just want to say it's a bit upsetting to think the last few months of preparation and RP are going to go to waste because of this change.

 

[Islamadon 4429]

51 minutes ago, Terry said:

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, LatzMomo said:

 

The problem fundamentally lies in the fact that it's pretty unprecedented for two deity magics to merge like that. Semantics and deeper arguments aside, it was a thing that should have never been. Be it Loreheads, other LT or the Templars I've hung around - all have stated that it's a compatibility that doesn't make sense. I understand the frustration and how it will negatively affect the people involved with the Druid-Templar combo currently. Fundamentally, though, it makes no sense.

Soul connections aren't a matter of worship - an Aengul lays claim to you and lends their power. Descendants who are tethered to them act as their mortal agents. Why would an Aengul want to share their food with another, or have their agents doing stuff that doesn't align with their will? Templarism is also incompatible with Machine Spirits (Garumdir claim), Paladinism, etc. These do not require direct worship either. Seer is the only exception because the whole shtick is that Vassek hides his connection so that his people blend in and spy. Aenguls do not want to share.

Though Malch CURRENTLY does not have a Realm, what if he acquired one? Where would the soul of a dead Templar go - theoretical valhalla or the eternal forest? The hybrid templar wouldn't get to choose, one deity would have to take precedent over the other. Does Malch want his Templars to commune with and be merry with an elk, or does Malch want them to make a trophy of the elk? If a Templar were to visit the Eternal Forest with a ritual, would they be considered an otherworldly invader due to their Malch smell? It's these mini considerations that break the mechanics of cosmos/deities.

Once again, I understand completely how this might upset some people. At the end of the day if I could justify the compatibility other than just saying "we have it currently", I would have. It just doesn't make sense to me as a guy who reviews lore 24/7 and did considerable research before writing this proposal. If someone can give me a truly compelling argument that makes sense with the in-universe mechanics, I will 100% change my opinion.