Your View: On Course—Off Course?

[Islamadon 4429]

11 hours ago, Jentos said:

This reminds me of the lectorate 

 

On a serious note we weren’t saints; we held disdain for others just as much as the next group - we are Human. I think the reason we were perceived the way we are is because we strictly adhered to a contract that clearly defined the expectations of our IRP and OOC conduct that we believed was healthiest.

 

I’ll copy paste our tenets verbatim for all to see. EDIT: No more black text

 

1. No OOC Hierarchy: All signatories will be treated equally on an OOC level with none having dominion over another. Roleplay hierarchies may exist for the sake of functionality provided powertripping does not extend to an OOC capacity.

2. No Governmental Positions: Don’t join any City, Religious or National minecraft government to reap its ranks and privileges.

3. No Honorifics Which Demand Responsibility: Don’t accept the granting of any titles such as Ser, Holy Ser, Inquisitor etc. which require responsibility from you. If a group wants to dub you something for purely titular sake, then that is fine.

4. Criminal RP Shall Not Inflict Control: If doing crime RP, do not try to use your organization to control a city from the shadows. Instead, allow that city the way they want to run. Purely make money and RP, not power players.

5. THOT Patrol: If someone is simping or being corrupted by an E-GIRL, signatories are required to thwart that fling.

6. No Factionalism: Do not attempt to build factions within the group. Do not attempt to recruit people in the group for other groups. Respect and prioritize our group’s interests and not the interests of others.

7. No Greed: If the group needs something to flourish, contribute what you can. Laziness is no excuse nor is lethargy. Detox or vacation is fine.

8. No Public Toxicity: Refrain from deliberately attempting to bait or post with malicious intent. This applies to Forum Posts, Discord Announcements, Discord Chats, etc. Shitposts are permissible within our personal group chat provided that they are not malicious and directed towards guests. Context applies.

9. No OOC Snakery: Do not betray the group on an OOC level. This includes rat-like behavior, engaging in OOC plots against the group, log leaking, spreading toxic gossip about the group, etc. No rule lawyering - people understand the intent of the rules.

10. No Murder Chimping: Don’t play purely to kill other players and deprive them of fun. RP should be played out in a constructive manner that pushes a narrative, not epic wins.

 

[Asutto 1990]

10 minutes ago, xMuted said:

I think this is too much to ask of people who are staff on this server for free, just doing it out of the passion and like for the server that they are all on.

Cannot expect public professionalism on what is essentially a minecraft server run by players like the rest of us just doing it out of their hearts.

It's really not. Every other Minecraft Server from Potterworld to Hypixel to SchoolRP has figured out how to have their Staff behave in a mature manner.

And I'm not suggesting that they wear suit & ties to staff meetings or write an essay report to justify why they banned a sicko. I just believe a Staff members go to response shouldn't be "Cope and Seethe" or call members of the community slurs. This sort of common decency is what's expected out of McDonalds employees. Its not that hard. 

[Jentos 6884]

14 minutes ago, Islamadon said:

This reminds me of the lectorate 

 

On a serious note we weren’t saints; we held disdain for others just as much as the next group - we are Human. I think the reason we were perceived the way we are is because we strictly adhered to a contract that clearly defined the expectations of our IRP and OOC conduct that we believed was healthiest.

 

I’ll copy paste our tenets verbatim for all to see. P.S. black text lol I’m phone posting.

 

1. No OOC Hierarchy: All signatories will be treated equally on an OOC level with none having dominion over another. Roleplay hierarchies may exist for the sake of functionality provided powertripping does not extend to an OOC capacity.

2. No Governmental Positions: Don’t join any City, Religious or National minecraft government to reap its ranks and privileges.

3. No Honorifics Which Demand Responsibility: Don’t accept the granting of any titles such as Ser, Holy Ser, Inquisitor etc. which require responsibility from you. If a group wants to dub you something for purely titular sake, then that is fine.

4. Criminal RP Shall Not Inflict Control: If doing crime RP, do not try to use your organization to control a city from the shadows. Instead, allow that city the way they want to run. Purely make money and RP, not power players.

5. THOT Patrol: If someone is simping or being corrupted by an E-GIRL, signatories are required to thwart that fling.

6. No Factionalism: Do not attempt to build factions within the group. Do not attempt to recruit people in the group for other groups. Respect and prioritize our group’s interests and not the interests of others.

7. No Greed: If the group needs something to flourish, contribute what you can. Laziness is no excuse nor is lethargy. Detox or vacation is fine.

8. No Public Toxicity: Refrain from deliberately attempting to bait or post with malicious intent. This applies to Forum Posts, Discord Announcements, Discord Chats, etc. Shitposts are permissible within our personal group chat provided that they are not malicious and directed towards guests. Context applies.

9. No OOC Snakery: Do not betray the group on an OOC level. This includes rat-like behavior, engaging in OOC plots against the group, log leaking, spreading toxic gossip about the group, etc. No rule lawyering - people understand the intent of the rules.

10. No Murder Chimping: Don’t play purely to kill other players and deprive them of fun. RP should be played out in a constructive manner that pushes a narrative, not epic wins.

 

Based tenets. Wished something like this was more common. 

[Sweetshare 115]

There are no consequences on the server, which means that it isn't a roleplay server (do not think roleplay first is fully followed). Combat Roleplay should really be the only type of combat you see outside of warclaims (where it wouldn't be feasible). Other servers have implemented player cards where you had bonuses to your rolls depending on certain factors, which could probably be done here. I also feel that it was a mistake getting rid of an untamed / wild "free-build" area. Nation Leaders have too much power and say over roleplay, and usually don't want to contribute to actual stories (rather, they only care about themselves).

 

If we are to follow a "DnD" style, you need to have character sheets that have rolls and bonuses based on certain things (armor worn, items in hand...something). That will help you complete one of the mission objectives.

 

Unlike most players on here, I roleplayed on other RP servers when LotC was opened and only briefly played back in 2014 / 2015 era. My friends convinced me to return, and it wasn't similar to the other RP servers we played on. If you died, you were dead. That's how it worked. It meant there were stakes and RP was serious. On this server if you die (even if it's from a bandit), you can just come back with no consequences. 

 

I don't think this server will ever be like that, because most people will freak out if some good PvPer kills them on the road (or some stacked character who is uber powerful due to OOC friendships). I just wish that the admins / staff allowed more "freeform roleplay" to take place. Unlike most people I don't think the moderators are the issue. Moderators have pretty clear and cut enforcements they have to do. My major beef is with the story team. Self learning magic should be possible and open to a lot of people. Trust me, nobody is going to misuse magic since most magics on this server are super underpowered (especially the "new player" magics - evocation etc.)

 

In almost all the ST events I've been apart of (it isn't a lot), the STs were either showing clear favoritism (at one point, a person joined late who was a friend of the ST and the ST just let them act out as the main character while we were forced to watch, locked into combat for hours while somebody typed out boring emotes), or they're simply there to gatekeep lore from people. I've only had good encounters with Shorsand as an ST, but I haven't had a lot of encounters - it just seems Shorsand likes random events.

 

STs could do a lot more. On other servers STs / DMs would actually do random encounters for people, that gave them tangible rewards and benefits. On this server the best you can hope for is a massive and colossal waste of time which is only done to help their friends - at least in my eyes. I usually feel like an NPC at ST events.

 

So tldr; I think the server needs to have more consequences + encouraging more freeform rp + better ST events.

[Cads 4]

All you need to follow is the Baldurs gate 3 guidelines.

[ichigomaster98 634]

The sentiment that staff shouldn't meet the requirements of their position is a weak one.

If being unbiased and having common decency, maturity, and meeting a baseline of expectations is too hard to meet for someone then they simply should not be staff of any sort.

Admin position should feel like work because it is work. Nobody made anyone else become staff, they decided to do the work. If they're not doing the work then they shouldn't be staff anymore. I don't see how there's room for anyone to disagree on this, why is someone staff if they're not doing their job?
Do your job.

 

On a side note, LotC Moderation Team Discord server should really just be the forums. That server is both obscure to get in and pretty tyrannical with the constant mutes for disagreeing with certain staff members, and adds another server of bloat to my maxed out Discord server list. In the process of writing this message I was asked what that server is by someone I had help me proofread, this is not an uncommon occurrence. The general sentiment I hear is that it just shouldn't exist. Use the forums.

 

On another side note, I agree auction house should return. Its removal has only worsened the economy, and the arguments that it creates trader roleplay are just wrong. If you want to walk around to sell items and deal with all the headache that comes with it then the revival of the auction house won't stop you. Why not have both?

[Mickey 57]

23 minutes ago, Cads said:

All you need to follow is the Baldurs gate 3 guidelines.

 

"Hold on, I need to quick save before this fight."

[High_On_Math 399]

This server absolutely sucks and makes me extremely sad every time I try to quit playing. Thus, the only way for me to have fun and be happy is to continue playing on the server. Therefore, the server is addictive and makes me sad.

 

QED

[Aesopian 1125]

12 hours ago, Telanir said:

I've read a lot of posts in this thread and much of it is genuine, high-caliber feedback. Thank you for that.

I made the mistake not to to point this out but please focus on the state of the server and not individuals, for example "your idea made me ill" is not a valid reply lol

 

There is no need to defend your opinion, a well thought out reply will do that more than hitting reply on someone else's musings.

 

Thanks for reading through my obligatory janny insert, I hid a bunch of posts, if yours was hidden it will be discussed anyway, admins can still see them.

You should take some of the ideas here that resonate with you and create polls for them to determine whether the majority of the server in fact supports the opinion of an individual player.

[Shorsand 1745]

The server needs to generate a roleplay and NARRATIVE mindset first over anything else. We don't do that. Many things are gamified in a sense of winning primarily because we appeal to that type of audience. There needs to be a culture that enforces the narrative of the RP world with both wins and losses without regard to OOC input or output. We have to enforce that this is a community with a shared overarching idea of the aforementioned -- not nation versus nation in a shittalking OOC fest or sabotaging bs or being lootgoblins.

We should all be here to contribute to an epic story ala Lord of the Rings in scope of its lore, but we are the individual actors within it. We can't all be heroes, we can't all be kings, that's okay.

 

 

In terms of solutions, we need to take power and influence away from Nations, Nation Leaders, and Nation-based roleplay. If NLs stay, they should be encouraged to create interesting and meaningful conflict amongst their own players and among other nations. They should actively encourage intricate sabotage plots among themselves, planning assassinations of their own royalty for the sake and enjoyment of other players beneath them or in the courts; almost acting like Story Team members. I think if we achieved this and did some more tuning of how well we approach PvP and conflict-based/reward-based RP, we could really have a delightful server.

 

This comes from a person who has been on since 2011.

[GoodEgg 51]

excuse the shit formatting I’m phoneposting

 

To give some thoughts from the perspective of somebody who is essentially a new player - (registered years ago and only started playing now):

 

Most of the ‘issues’ here are ones of perspective - and the people voicing those are incredibly passionate about the way in which these issues are handled.

 

There is a truth in the difficulty that many have raised about the balancing act of the servers different pillars and communities - that being between things like PvP/CRP, magic, nation RP, etc. The server absolutely excels in doing that- but cannot make everybody happy.

 

Things like constantly avoidable PKs are something I don’t care for, but many do. LOTC is the Premier RP server for its scale, and with this scale there will always be internal conflicts of interest between groups who have different wants both in and out of character.

 

The server has a few core issues which can be ironed out, but are like growing bedsores to long-time players rather than actual key issues with the gameplay loop and overall experience.
 

RP quality, power of nations, OOC conduct (rudeness, racism, homophobia, etc), and other such broad and ultimately subjective issues are ones which will continue to diverge and cause friction. This is the reality of community-led large scale projects like this one and ultimately unavoidable as much as we might try to curb their excesses.

 

This isn’t to say the discussion is pointless, but is to instead affirm the broader reality that things are “ok” - and the doomsaying and panicking around our displeasure regarding certain systems isn’t to the benefit of ourselves or the server. Far too many servers have collapsed due to these sort of unneeded internal community dramas and have left players worse off for it. It’s not to say that you shouldn’t voice concerns, but it needs to be done that we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and turn issues into a bigger deal than they really are.

 

LOTC being an overall healthy and positive community is best for us all - and as unlikely as it is, a few threads of positivity about improvements to systems, experiences ICly and OOCly, etc would massively help remind us why we all cancel IRL dates, parties and sporting events to go play dress up pretend in Minecraft.

 

TLDR: Yes there are issues but it’s not that big of a deal, be positive.

 

-

 

 

Some of my own subjective thoughts while I’m here: 

- The ability to resist PKs under any circumstances isn’t good. It reduces risk and consequences for actions. I understand the reasons for implementing such but there needs to be nuance. Intentional murder and violence should be possible - whilst PK immunity can be great to not have people making burner characters for war.

 

- Some of the consistent Minecraft mechanics are strange. I need OOC signs for breaking and entering, but I have to gather and craft them? Why can’t I just do /kit sign? What gameplay purpose does crafting signs give me?

 

- Please bring back multiple people being able to ride horses (I heard this exists as a command now? Unclear)

 

- Netherite armour is poo with the speed-debuff, there needs to be another way to balance the armour.

 

- Whilst I understand the risks of any sort of magic plugin for PVP - it still feels a little strange to have wizards that can shoot fireballs reduced to just random foot soldiers as soon as PVP occurs. There needs to be some workaround, though I’m stumped on this for now.

 

- More random ST encounters and event locations/factions would be lovely.

 

- Soul-stoning everywhere is weird - I much preferred the carts from last map.

 

- I agree with the hour-before-raid warning sentiment. Will create more fun conflict if both sides can prepare (which they would be able to ICly). Some issues do come with this but net positive IMO.

 

- Too many RP hubs! Players are too spread apart for the amount of RP going on. Having a multiplicity of nations to RP in is fun but it’s a bit overkill right now IMO.

 

And a few positive ones:

 

- Really pleasant experience with staff overall, they have a levelheaded and approachable demeanour about everything. Generally have agreed on their decisions and found their justifications understandable where not.

 

- RP quality is super high IMO! As much as there’s always going to be bad RP on such a big server - there’s been TONS of great experiences I’ve had across all the nations I’ve played in doing a variety of different RP. I get filled up with character ideas just due to the sheer number of RP opportunities given the scale of the server and RP potential.

 

- I love the magic systems and find the way which they and other parts of the lore to be distributed through the server (especially libraries) to be fantastic. Yeah, they’re sometimes a bit cliquey for the rarer magic - but I don’t think they’re supposed to be very easy to access. I think they strike a good balance (and ultimately I think the cliquey was actually is a helpful organic barrier preventing bad RPers getting powerful magic).

 

- The nation RP is involved and interesting. I’ve really enjoyed the developments allowed with the new resource nodes and the balancing there of whilst playing a merchant character.

 

There’s lots more I could discuss like the freedom offered to players to run events, healthy resolution of CRP in my experience, positive OOC communities - but you get the gist.

[Unwillingly 11177]

17 minutes ago, GoodEgg said:

And a few positive ones:

snip

for every positive experience a new player has I drop a penny in my restored-optimism jar

[Serf 579]

First time bothering with any feedback requests, but here we go. Playing off and on since Aegis, I feel that the server has been in decline for a while now. I think everyone agrees with that, and this map is probably one of the worst in a while. Not only in mechanics but in the community as well.

 

There’s absolutely no point in logging on. Every hour spent on LotC is an hour of my life wasted it feels like. I play, I do my thing, and log off unsatisfied. I take long breaks and come back to the same old drama and politics. There’s no character progression with players because the server doesn’t facilitate it. So why should I waste hours on here getting nowhere? Like many have said in this thread, there’s this obsession with being conflict and risk adverse among the playerbase. This is a major pillar in what makes roleplay, which isn’t enforced at all, and because it isn’t enforced, there’s absolutely zero progression in story. And when there’s an attempt to progress things, it is usually stopped with some arbitrary server rules or lore mechanics that takes IRL months to resolve, making everything pointless and irrelevant very fast.

 

Roleplay isn’t a long drawn out or planned storyline. It’s spontaneous and improvisational that resolves itself rather quickly. That’s what roleplay is. That’s what makes rolepaly fun but a lot of people here don’t understand that at all. Nothing is more annoying than seeing a majority of players in their cities outright ignoring players because they don’t know them OOCly, paragraph posting at a tavern, or doing slice of life garbage. It doesn’t lead anywhere or progress a story. It’s just sad escapism that we’re all here forced to entertain. 

 

Mechanically this server needs things that are openly available to the player that lets them progress their character, rather than submitting to the crap I listed above. Systems that put everyone at risk would help. Permakill clauses, risk of losing items, and whatever else will make players want to develop and progress their character so that they can survive. Bring back a skill and profession system like Nexus during 7.0/Axios that players can interact and roleplay around. Implement SOMETHING that isn’t gatekept or involve players sitting around getting groomed in a manor every single day. Many might say "Well I don't have time for that..." WELL TOO BAD. You probably have 2 days a week logged into the server anyway. HAVE MECHANICS THAT FORCE THEM OUT INTO THE WORLD AND ROLEPLAY!!!! The nodal system is AWESOME. I don't care what anyone else says but we should have more of that. It forces people outside of cities and sets them up for potential player interaction (good or bad) No ST interaction from farming herbs, and whenever ST ores come out I hope to GOD I don't have to interact with them.

 

I have other criticisms, but this is the main thing. I donated $500 to the server, so I hope to see that money go toward a better server or something at least.

[91st 27]

I'm a very new player on LOTC, so I'll express the perspective of a new writer.

 

Start with the good;

 

I think LOTC has tons of potential, and the people can often be super welcoming and nice depending on where you go and who you talk to. There is a vague sense of 'don't talk to me I'm doing my house RP', but generally if you have some goal in mind heading to an RP most people are welcome to write back and forth with you for a bit. The magic systems, while very restrictive, are actually very interesting - and the history related to how magic has affected the world is doubly so. I often find myself reading up on in game lore books just to read about the voidal horror event that occured two continents ago. Events have been interesting, world lore is great, and alot of the stuff that is currently in use is v engaging - and I'd be lying if there wasn't some magic envy going on for those magics I don't have, or those items I wish I did. 

 

Now, with the bad;

 

There is a weird sense that staff are trying too hard to cater to every type of group - from MRP'ers and CRP'ers, and they can't manage to make either happy because the systems they implement for both are so shallow and unfun you're picking the poison of grinding endlessly for leather so you'll survive a raid, or gambling on a d20 regardless of your character so you don't spend 4 hours lawyering up who would logically win a fight. The systems just fundamentally fight against what LOTC seems to want to be, an RP Server. After PVP was turned on, RP instantly dropped because people were so focused on camping their mining nodes and cow farms as an example, which seems odd that an RP server would implement a system that encourages people to not RP. 

 

As far as gatekeeping, it is definitely an issue, though I assume because there has been such harsh punishments to entire systems for the failings of single people. Like, it is atrociously hard for a new writer to get things like magic - and despite what people claim, if you're not instantly a useful member to a faction, you're probably not going to get a lot else either, alchemy included. Is there a way to fix that? Maybe, some executive action to encourage people to write things they want, but maybe thats best left to LOTC's culture.

 

The last big issue, which is even super prevalent in this thread and so many others, but LOTC has literally zero respect for one another. These forums are full of 'witty one liners and comebacks', but it reeks of teenage salt over a game about blocks and their cool self inserts. Players openly comment on applications for staff, lore, items, or anything else with atrocious comments that have no bearing on the issue or subject at hand, and just to insult people. Worse than even that, but I've seen threads where staff come in and lack any iota of professionalism to pop off for likes. There is so little moderation on keeping up friendly behavior, the entire server culture has slowly descended into an absolute mess of toxicity and stupidity because there's nobody skimming the sludge that floats to the top without some grievous issue.

 

Here's an example that occurred to me when I first joined - I got 'hired' into a group of RP'ers doing some crusader nonsense. I thought it would be chill and joined, but I quickly found out that they didn't actually care about the RP, only cared about PVP and harassing people on the road. They spent alot of time hiring new people fresh off their applications, and then doubly encouraged them to hate LOTC from the get go. These people openly talked about how RP is cringe, that its stupid to do it, and more often than not they refused to do anything RP related unless it consisted of attacking Randoms. That's all their LOTC Focused stuff, but in their discord itself it was even worse - they openly had old men talking to teenagers about how to make their privates larger through a course they had. Absolutely atrocious nonsense, and there were multiple members that were on staff teams, or knew vaguely what was going on - and apparently, that isn't even that uncommon for this stuff to just pass. 

 

So when you have groups that outright think of LOTC as a place to just break and harass until they have to do their ban appeal for being too toxic, how do you think LOTC is going to go in the long run? Bloated staff teams, poor design philosophy, and no focus on the mission statement LOTC itself references leads to this amalgam of confusion and weirdness nobody likes, and it very well won't get better until someone puts their foot down and starts cleaning up. 

[ReveredOwl 5331]

never thought I'd see the day when @AnonymousAlexawould advocate for VAs...

Aside from that, raids should require some form of notice beforehand, it makes no sense they can march across the land and enter a city when there isn't anyone around, cause there would be and it would allow for gates to be open to new players. Additionally, the devs put a lot of time and effort into the pvp plugin, which works great, but what about other plugins that would make this a unique rp server? The cooking plugin, for example, whats happened to that?

Perhaps there could be some form of farming plugin wherein the ST, or whoever it is that create nodes, can turn a field like this

 

Into something that actually works and are harvestable and can then be used in conjunction with a cooking plugin, same with vineyards where grapes can be used to brew wine, barley can be harvested to make ale. Believe it or not, we had a brewery plugin back in Anthos where you harvested barley and stuff like that with a sickle. Why can't we have PVE events anymore?

Now that the server has a server side resource pack for the pvp plugins weapons, why can't more be done with it to create custom mobs and harvestable items, it would make the server so much more fun and unique, instead of just the basics

But, I don't know why I event posted this because nothing is ever listened to or acted on.

Edited August 17, 2023 by ReveredOwl