the case for banning homophobia

[sam33497 2793]

i dont care about your discourse. i dont care about your funny font. i dont care about gays and homophobes. i dont care about reputation. i dont care about ooc glory. i dont care about acceptance on the forums.

 

please shut the **** up. get to roleplaying guys and you might start enjoying the server.

[DistantCryprid 265]

i'm gonna be honest, sometimes I wanna log on to a minecraft roleplay server without having to worry about dealing with something I already deal with IRL, like I already experience it i don't need a bootleg sim of homophobia.

[InfamousGerman 1549]

[warlord of filth 7714]

this is all bg3s fault btw if that shitty game never came out 

[Borin 5259]

Hi all

 

To be completely frank you're all morons. Individuals can have their views but the church itself is not in the habit of persecuting gays. 

 

I think this debate has been crippled by ignorance and misunderstanding, and certain people making silly misleading arguments.

 

'Being gay' is not a crime in Canon Law. Merely being gay is not an issue. 

 

It instead revolves around marriage, which revolves around the production of legitimate children (Believe it or not thats a bit tricky for same sex couples, I know, I was shocked too). For a whole list of reasons it is currently irply based on scripture more heavily weighted towards being between men and women. Sorry! 

 

No. Canonist death squads do not hunt the gays. I have never seen a gay lynching on lotc. I have seen barely any rp even related to it beyond forum posts and some Lurinite weirdo, and the irp Church debate about it. But a mass hysteria has gripped certain people and decided that the Russians have gone too far in oppressing the lgbtq etc community.. oh whoops I meant humanity, sorry. 

 

I believe the Canonist line is that gay stuff is treated the same as any stuff outside of marriage. Depends where you are but Church line I believe is just 'pray confess repent go about your business', though if one of the partakers is married then it becomes more of a problem because it violates wedding stuff, which is treated the same whether it a gay or straight incident of doing the silly with someone you're not married to. It's not that deep. 

 

Its my view that romance rp is weird. It should ideally be done privately anyway, in Canonist societies you don't really get big displays of affection in public. If people want to do their gay romance rp, or any sort of romance rp, its done privately. If you want to sit on a bed and ftb, I should hope youre not in the middle of a city street. The Canonist Church doesnt stop you doing your gay rp. It doesn't try to murderise you. It's been thoroughly overblown. But if you do want to have legitimate heirs and not get in trouble for cheating on your spouse, this goes for everyone, don't dew it! 

 

Please stop schizo posting. I think the possibility of banning people for their irl religious views is moronic and if it was the other way around and you were being banned for your views of lgbtq stuff you'd be outraged. Lets just not keep forcing it into ooc scandal so people stop arguing about it oocly and just do RP.

 

Mods I advise deleting this post and squashing any ooc moronism that comes up in the future, for everyone's sake. I find people on both sides of the argument very irritating and repulsive.

 

Cheers

Okay yeah I just read through the comments again and man. I don't know what all the fuss is about the only 'no gays r bad book says so' is on the forums theres literally nothing on the actual server. idk what you people think the canonist church's stance is but you haven't even tried beyond 'grr damn catholic larpers and their BIBLE', in one of the posts abt this a bit ago some1 literally quoted the bible to argue that 'hurr durr dont u guys preach abt loving thy neighbour?' or something like that. Bloody hell if you're going to have an IRP discourse abt it, actually put in a tiny bit of effort into researching it if you're gonna whine abt it.

[xMuted 2459]

are people genuinally scared of using the modteam to help them when they feel uncomfortable with certain roleplay

 

And are they too scared of people who are blatantly breaking the rule about homophobia 

 

if people reported this surely it would be no issue

 

i dont see a massive problem with the way the rule currently is and neither have I ever seen any blatant homophobia rp 

[Islamadon 4429]

BG3 fried the minds of people on the server like eggs. @warlord of filth

SATINKIRA STOP!!! YOU'VE LEARNED TO MAKE EASY REP FARMS BUT SAY NOTHING!!!

 

YOU are the one attempting to agitate! YOU are the one trying to make people uncomfortable! YOU are the one trying to force things on others!

It's already against the rules to target people maliciously for stuff like that! This is a bait thread, you're all being written down for the purge! IT'S A HONEYPOT THREAD PEOPLE 😱!!!

 

LORD TAKE ME NOW!!! 😭😭😭
 

 

[Onnensr 571]

4 hours ago, Jentos said:

what if I want to rp as an ultra conservative Hungarian politician who claims to hate gays but fucks elven twinks (@Onnensr) behind closed doors

a-a-an-gho s-senpai I thought w we were keeping it a s s s-ecret........ B-BAKA! (⸝⸝๑ ̫ ๑⸝⸝⸝)

[Laeonathan 3966]

my high elf codified gay marriage in law  because his mentor was gay

 

my human read the scrolls and doesnt support it

 

different characters, different morals.

 

If we ban all 'negative' rp -  when will we ban war/conflict? Theres plenty traumatized israelis, arabs, russians and ukranians, after all... what if THEY just want to escape? Same nonsense - this is for storytelling. not escapism...

[latte 1310]

7 hours ago, Nug said:

there shouldn't be any rp involving any sexuality at all. it's weird. all of our characters should be eunuchs who lay eggs. it can be lore!

HAHA made me think of this

[K_rusader 378]

Just like in the real world the experiences of a character can shape their beliefs on certain issues. If roleplayed correctly a character can be homophobic because of negative interactions with LGBTQ individuals.

But I think homophobia is fine as long as there isn't any OOC prejudice involved. Same for sexism, racism whateverism etc. This should be left up for moderator discretion on a case by case basis, Hopefully multiple moderators can come to a consenus on every case as this is could be a very subjective issue.

[CombatRolePlay 1718]

I have no experience regarding canonist lore so I cannot comment on it.

Although from personal experience throughout my entire time on the server (very long, i have no life) I've had no issue completely avoiding entire sections of the community simply because I don't find certain types of RP or certain people very fun to be around (one of the main reasons I reject the idea of limiting the places a player can go to for RP).

Having a blanket ban on a topic in a roleplay server feels excessive and is a very slippery slope that i feel would be very harmful to the community if handled improperly.

I've seen these things RPd tastefully before, its possible. But I must stress the importance of proper moderation regarding such RP and as a player you must also do your part in reporting such instances, and as staff we should try our best not to discourage players from reaching out (This weird culture of wanting to "Dunk" on players or "Clown" on them does this, its hard to approach someone who you think might simply shrug you off and make fun of you in their private discords instead).

 

having said that, I am of the opinion that threads like this dont serve much purpose aside from stoking the flames. I would recommend Joining community discussions that staff hosts so you can directly relay your concerns to them without having to start a culture war in the forums. 

Tldr, i just rambled a bit but:
I'm a strong believer of simply ignoring the RP you do not like (as long as it is completely in character) and reporting cases where OOC bleeds into their RP decisions. 
Allow players to form their own communities freely so that they do not have to be forced to interact with possibly Triggering material, and those that wish to RP bigotry (within character) may do so in their own communities. 

I hope that the optics surrounding staff team would improve so the player base is less reluctant to approach us in cases where there is genuine OOC bigotry being committed. 

 

Lastly, there's an epidemic on the forums where people hide behind "Banter" to throw jabs at other players OOCly. It's not that hard to keep the aggression within your private discords / communities. Please show some restraint. You're grown ass men and women.

[satinkira 5904]

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

13 hours ago, satinkira said:

 

I’m here to have a quick chat about homophobia in roleplay – and why, in my opinion, it should be banned. I want to be clear, before I start, that a lot of the fingerpointing towards people who want homophobia to be banned does not apply to me; I am not progressive, I do not come from a liberal, left-wing background; indeed my family itself is conservative – not religious, but conservative all the same. I want no comments denouncing me as a braindead, sensitive child of the modern world, neurons fried by TikTok and radical left-wing social media; I am no such person. I would instead like to offer a good faith argument as to why I think any sort of narrative benefit that homophobia roleplay could ever hope to offer is outweighed by, well, all the negatives it brings.

 

I am perfectly aware that those who roleplay homophobia are not necessarily homophobic. I am also aware that barely anyone nowadays roleplays things akin to what was going on in late Rozania, where Savoyard crusaders were literally crucifying gay characters. That sort of thing simply doesn’t happen anymore, and rightly so. I can’t even recall the last time beyond that that I’ve heard of such a thing, and even then they were viewed as extreme by most.

 

However, I don’t think it’s by any means a bad thing to ban things that should be banned but don’t happen; proactivity when it comes to matters of server legislation is important, because it wards off those who might get tempted. But let us ask; what is the case for keeping homophobia?

 

Well, for one thing, it sort of provides narrative. The recent incident of the Four Princes post, I think, is a good example of why I’ve said ‘sort of’. The post itself, I am told by many Church fleepers, was entirely driven by OOC; such was echoed by other, more senior members of the Church in their responses in different threads and Discords – that it was basically looked down upon by them because it was done OOCly. I must admit, it’s always funny to see the Church accuse others of acting out of character, but that’s beside the point.

 

Another often-quoted reason I see stated as to why homophobia should remain unbanned is simply that it represents adversity; a challenge for people to tackle IRP, or a way for people who have to deal with homophobia irl to deal with it here.

 

But let us be clear. Homophobia has not been eroded and does not happen less in roleplay because of things that have happened in roleplay – instead, it has become OOCly looked down to roleplay homophobia because of the shifting demographics of the server, and is therefore looked down upon in roleplay due to the problem we have with self-inserts. In reality, getting the Church to change its position on virtually anything is near-impossible because all of the decisions are made in private Discord chats. Roleplay plays no part on this, at least where the Church is concerned, and it should stop pretending that it does. Whatsmore, in relation to the overcoming real-world homophobia - Lord of the Craft is not your therapy site. It’s an extremely bad idea to come here looking to resolve some real-life conflict; seek professionals instead of trying to get over homophobia in the real world on a minecraft roleplay server.

 

I think it’s important to look at this through the parental lens, too. Would you let your thirteen year old son join the server and start pretending to be homophobic with a bunch of strangers? I think not (at least I hope not). Also, imagine joining the server as a pink tag, walking into a town and seeing a bunch of people screeching about sodomy (as an NL recently told me happened in their town). It’s a bad look for the server, and this brings me to another point; any reflection of a real-world prejudice on our server makes us look crass and unimaginative. We can come up with better methods of producing narrative conflict, can’t we?

 

To be fair, the only group with any real excuse for being homophobic is the high elves, because of their low fertility rates; homosexual individuals could be perceived  as negatively contributing to society. But even this is bogus because elves have like ten children a month and have massive families, so that clearly isn’t adhered to and therefore isn’t an excuse to justify homophobia roleplay.

 

A final point I’d like to make is that people tend to point to homophobia as an example of medieval realism; that’s utterly bogus. We have tanks, magical robots, and mech-limbs. Homosexuality is, to be frank, far more realistic in medieval terms than any of those things – if you wish to battle for realism, do so on the fronts that actually deserve attention.

 

My position is clear: we should flat-out ban all forms of real-world prejudice from the server. It’s basically an informal rule, where the only holdout is homophobia for some reason – we don’t permit real-world racism, but we permit homophobia. Whether or not the Church falls under that category is something I’m a little unsure on; personally I don’t like Church homophobia roleplay because it can only ever be extremely lazy or purposefully overly traditional, but that’s besides the point. I would encourage genuine thought and discussion on this; my understanding is that Llir is planning to hold a community meeting on the matter, and I hope that this can generate some genuine thought beforehand. If you disagree with me, if I’ve missed something out, if I’ve made a mistake, please do say so. have a good day chaps

 

Also, I'm aware that I held a different opinion a few weeks ago, but I've changed my mind since last posting the malaise quote, that does happen sometimes and people can listen to constructive debate

 

  Reveal hidden contents

@wowjive got you

 

 

 

Honestly I think this should just be the talking point of the meeting Llir is having as nobody could put this any better.

 

Regardless of if LotC is an escapism or not for players, homophobia really is an unnecessary part of roleplay with no real positive. Elf x Human racism is far more productive and entertaining roleplay with productive outcomes (i.e. banished from Haelun'or for not being pure, so you go on a quest to show your purity, or become good enough known as an outsider race to be accepted by those inside), homophobia and other similar prejs don't have any sort of route, it's "ew you're gay get out" or "ew ur gay let's just ******* execute you" neither of which is productive or gives you anything in roleplay, other than exiled from a community.

 

tldr; Dislike elves and make them cut their ears again, whitewash orcs for being against the Horde and make humans do tests of faith that don't involve asking them if they want to 'sodomise a man'.

 

 

 

[UnusualBrit 2061]

6 hours ago, Onnensr said:

a-a-an-gho s-senpai I thought w we were keeping it a s s s-ecret........ B-BAKA! (⸝⸝๑ ̫ ๑⸝⸝⸝)

this vexes me.