Reorganizing Arcane Magic

[Tirenas 677]

Though I do like the idea of it, I believe it'd be better to have a freedom to choose from different types of magic, and not just be limited to being a "sorcerer" or "wizard". Something I do love, however, is the thaumaturgy branch, it just needs to have alteration added to it, as that is clearly more fitting of a thaumaturge rather than a wizard. It'd also be nice to have some sort of runic magic added to thaumaturgy, but clearly that needs to be created prior to actually being thrown in there.

[E__V__O 1984]

Now I know this is for Arcane Magic and everything though how does this tie with other archtypes of magic? As an example are you allowed to be a "sorcerer" and be a "Necromancer", ect, tying with dark arts.

 

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I actually do like this and wouldn't mind sacrificing some RP to put this in place.

[ski_king3 0]

The reorganization is cool, the restrictiveness is not. Adding restrictions to roleplay ain't great, especially in such a jarring manner as this.

[The Lion 717]

The reorganization is cool, the restrictiveness is not. Adding restrictions to roleplay ain't great, especially in such a jarring manner as this.

Due to being informed of the blacklist available to halt the actions of OP mages, I have to change my opinion. Ski often speaks from the perspective of your general RPer and I have to agree with him. Restriction is not as great in action as it is on paper. Reorganizing and adding a title to specific schools of magic. That's what's up.

[Mithradites 1161]

I answered the restriction-statements on page 4 of this thread. The only thing you're being restricted from is being 'the best' at everything.

[BrandNewKitten 2789]

I would say no to combining fire (or any evocation for that matter) with arcane evocation too, because it doesn't make sense. That's due to the nature of arcane evocation though. It's pretty much evocation without the element, yeah? (That's how it used to be at least). Add the fire, and all you really have is fire evocation. Arcane evocation is special. It edges away from the norms of evocation. Being unable to combine it with other evocations doesn't mean you're unable to combine other evocations. It just has to make sense. No flaming water for example.

Edit: There are limited instances where you can actually combine them, because the properties of the elements can't conflict. Flaming rocks and electrified water are the two working examples that come to mind.

This is quite right and a good way of explaining it. Arcane evocation and shielding are devoid of the element part of evocation. It is just pure energy so when mixed with other elemental evocations it produces nothing more than that element.

This means you cannot combine it with other evos to change the color of your flame or water, etc... (Although I believe this can be achieved in other ways)

What you can do is intermingle with others using arcane evocation/shielding. If both parties casting arcane evo mutually accept a combination then they mix. This is specifically important to arcane shielders who, when working in tandem, can create massive barriers and since each has a different color aura you can expect the colors to mix as well.

:) I think that's what I like about with thread idea. There is a heavy emphasis on cooperative casting.

[Parkins 549]

I do not see Necromancy on this list.

 

 

We have been forgotten.

[Mithradites 1161]

 

I do not see Necromancy on this list.

 

 

We have been forgotten.

 

This is arcane. This is not necromancy! They are different things! Different, separate things!

[ski_king3 0]

I answered the restriction-statements on page 4 of this thread. The only thing you're being restricted from is being 'the best' at everything.

 

The thing is, there are already characters who are really good at multiple things. Good enough to fall under what you would probably classify as "the best." Having more skilled magics doesn't make your character more powerful, just as a warrior skilled with multiple weapons isn't more powerful. It just allows you to be more diverse, more interesting, more of what you want. Sure, we've got an over-saturation of super boss ass master wizards/swordsmen/bowmen (well not really that last one), but eliminating their versatility won't stop their general existence, which is the root of the "problem."

[E__V__O 1984]

Now I know this is for Arcane Magic and everything though how does this tie with other archtypes of magic? As an example are you allowed to be a "sorcerer" and be a "Necromancer", ect, tying with dark arts.

 

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I actually do like this and wouldn't mind sacrificing some RP to put this in place.

 

 

I answered the restriction-statements on page 4 of this thread. The only thing you're being restricted from is being 'the best' at everything.

 

I believe the question I raised was not answered on page 4 as nothing from other archtypes have been brought up. 

[Elindor 654]

I don't understand how there isn't already categories for Arcane Magics. There is. Personally I would place Conjuration under "Evocation" as all the same rules apply which means there is 3. Alteration, Evocation, Illusion.

 

 

There is many pages of which I read the first and last, so could you maybe explain how this makes any difference?

 

If its just about becoming more "masterful" of certain branches, or if it is purely roleplay type things, I love it. But it doesn't need to come into contact with the OOC organisation in any way. You can define what a sorcerer is, and what a wizard is. Your explanations are similar to my own mindsets and I referred to "mages" as sorcerers on several occasions to be more specific. But its IC terminology which belongs in an IC situation only.

Equally I think "warlock" needs to be a more common term for someone who has a natural affinity to magic from birth (ie has done little to study it but just "does" it). But these are IC names and have no effect on the OOC structure of magic. I believe Arcane to be the simplest of all magic types to understand in their current structure.

If any divergence one might branch the magics of the mind together (mental, cognitism, telepathy) and then slot the remainders in to similar categories, but then what more does that achieve?

[ChonGojDragonski 317]

+1

 

People should be forced to Roleplay archetypes if it is on a specific character. If anyone is roleplaying more then one archetype of magic or subtype, they aren't doing it correctly. No matter how much time they've supposedly put in.

[ski_king3 0]

+1

 

People should be forced to Roleplay archetypes if it is on a specific character. If anyone is roleplaying more then one archetype of magic or subtype, they aren't doing it correctly. No matter how much time they've supposedly put in.

 

That is, in fact, never how magic has worked. I don't know your basis for this statement, but unless there are explicit roleplay restrictions for the specific type of magic in question, dipping into multiple archtypes is fine.

[Mithradites 1161]

Very sorry for my rather late replies, everyone! A man cannot be everywhere! And I don't think there will be a poem this time, sadly. Which is a shame, because we all know that's why you keep returning to this thread. I must await the return of my muse!

 

Okay, this is fairly long so I am going to be putting it in spoilers to see.

 

After reading this a couple of times I will say I greatly like this idea and can see this be extremely fun and interactive if done right. Though this may be long I will begin with some of the negative points that the majority of people see in that it is somewhat restrictive. Currently, there are a plethora of people who know magics that are of different schools by these standards in that we have people that have learnt 3-4 magics some with one of each subtype I once saw someone who knew Electric evocation, telekinesis, Conjuration, aswell as Illusion. Though of course by these standards it would mean he knows magics of 4 different schools which currently isn’t allowed. Now, I am not saying we remove the “Schools” infact I quite like them and that they have names despite them most likely not going to be fully caught on in-game (Least in my chars case). I feel it is somewhat restrictive only allowing basically one school to be learnt as it basically sets the people using them into ‘classes’ of sorts inwhich they will be stuck to doing now what they choose to do with the class is up to them but it prevents them from really studying other magics to help them in their magical studies. The other thing is how exactly would this method be implemented in-game? Would it be done via large events perhaps for magic users only? The mages guild (Even though they are for the most part inactive it seems) or simply accepted and given the “Okay, this is how magic works now.” Mind you I would like to see this implemented but it should be done via events for mages, maybe not a wipe of all magic and restarting but perhaps a change of sorts. Like something from the void randomly spawning into the realm and interfering with magic. Or something akin to that (Who knows).

Next I will move on into what I like about this addition. It is cool because it is a change of pace and gives a different overlook on magic RP, and may be implemented with some cool events. As well, I quite enjoy having school based super spells that can be done in groups as it makes working with other mages a more rewarding feat as you can do much more efficient spells and things with them like as you said teleporting, summoning blizzards, and summoning giant creatures with other mages. The other thing that is cool is the types of mini changes/spells of a kind within the schools abilities in that a thaumaturge is able to bind spectres to them to do their bidding most likely with OOC consent, and able to give a sliver of their mana pool to create a semi perminent conjuration though perhaps restrict it to only 1-2 per person. Though for something like that perhaps require the need of interaction in getting an alterationist to make it with you but be able to make it more ambiguous instead of making an enchantment you create this conjured being that is connected to the mana-pool of the creator. The last thing I like about it besides some other smaller things is the idea of classes being brought into this and having classes that are focused more on the combative side of magic (Though not necessarily forced into it if learnt) and then those on the more studious side, in Wizardry and Thaumaturgy. It can give greater meaning to the magics you pick instead of just learning the magics that you like instead have an actual response to it and semi perminant feeling of learning the magic. Also, it gives more incentive to interact with other mages to make massive spells.

Now, moving on to some ideas that I had that I feel should be explained/changed I will go in a numbered pattern to make it a bit more organized since this is a long post.

 

1. Perhaps since the void is changing we can see a slight change to how magic works so for example if we summon a large enough sum of mana with group based spells. The spells we make can be perminent in a way. That if we conjure a blizzard the blizzard may rage in the region we summon it in, for a set number of time depending on how much mana put forth and number of people and doesn’t require them to be actively be summoning this. Same thing can be said with other magics like in the binding of conjurations and spectres. Though it may diminish the strength of enchanting magic slightly (I don’t feel it would but others might) possibly have a slight change in alteration requiring them to put in effort to summon these spells and act like a catalyst of sorts. If you wish I wrote up arcane rituals as an idea with a few people a bit back and can give the general way how it worked. But in essence the alterationists works as a catalyst and bearer of the groups mana like a battery and with their help is able to output it to make the semi perminent creations, but not require them physical contact allowing them to do it at a distance.

2. To play off of that, perhaps in order to make these group based spells the group creating it could get either a GM or LM Permission, or to oversee the RP if they wish to make a large scale spell. Though not require super detailed lore instead simply say okay this is what we are doing we have so and so number of people helping out with it. Do you think it is possible, and or will you oversee it and give the reaction that will happen.

3. Instead of only being able to master 1 school and to be a great mage only really be able to use one school, instead break it off so it is possible to fully master 2 magics within 2 different schools. So I will take my character for example in that he only knows 2 magics that being Air mysticism and Transfiguration, he is fairly adept in both currently as he has been using both for over a year almost two years on air evocation and doesn’t particularly plan to learn any other magics. Though if put in enough effort why restrict people to only master 1 when they can master others, but as you use different schools simply make it harder on them. So I can only master 2 magic types/schools. But perhaps play in that mastering a magic doesn’t grant them more ability in using. So standard person “T” 4 in conjuration and a person “T” 5 in conjuration who  have been learning for the same amount of time can do the same things summon different things with the same amount of ease but grant the different perks of what you said. So the T5 conjurationist can bind their creations or bind Spectres but is restricted to only mastering 2 schools (This is a rough idea just think more mastery should be allowed) but the T4 one cannot bind these things but is able to learn much more magics just can’t use their “Special” abilities. This can also play into group based spells possibly allowing only people who fully master their magic to partake in them. As this would cut out those who truly want to dedicate themselves but at the same time make it so their isn’t such a large gap between them.

4. Possibly grant these small abilities to each group like how Thaumaturgists are able to bind spirits and their creations. Possibly allow the same thing to be done with the other schools. Not completely sure of what can be given but just an idea.

 

Anyways it was quite long but these are just a short few ideas I had that may be added to this and of course don’t need to be though my main concern is the restrictiveness of it in that you can’t master more than on schools. Some restrictions are good but not one that force you into a niche/class. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like this idea Mith :P it’s very interesting and I hope the LM’s/Admins look it over thoroughly. It is a great change and may be “Controversial” if we can even say that about something on our RP server. But it seems like it has a lot of positive support and you have mine!

Ps: I would remove the idea of Tiers though to it and make it more of a simpler thing such as levels like apprentice-novice-mage-master or something like that, or simply leave it to how it is now and only have “Mastery” to signify essentially T5

 

I'm not going to comment on anything involving what the magics will be capable of or how they work just yet. I'm mostly concentrating on the idea of joining the arcane schools together. Thanks for your support, though! And sorry about the late reply!

 

I'll try to keep my answers as concise as possible, here.
In regards to mastering more than one school, or being close to mastering more than one school, I have to disagree utterly. Having multiple schools mastered destroys the attractiveness of being a lower-level mage. Who would choose being average over that? It kind of defeats a large portion of this, is what I'm saying.

 

My word, I don't have much to tell you after all, do I? :/ Very sorry, Booklight. If this gets enough support, how the magics work, what skills will be available when, and how they interact with one-another will probably be on the next draft.

 

P.S. Tiers don't really have any difference from your apprentice-novice-etc system you propose. They're just to show how many accompanying magics you may have, and what is available at what stage.

 

Now I know this is for Arcane Magic and everything though how does this tie with other archtypes of magic? As an example are you allowed to be a "sorcerer" and be a "Necromancer", ect, tying with dark arts.

 

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I actually do like this and wouldn't mind sacrificing some RP to put this in place.

 

As the title of this thread says, this is an reorganisation of arcane magic. I didn't consider other magic archetypes in this draft. I'd say that the relationship between void magic and other magics will not have changed, so yes--necromancy and sorcery will likely be compatible. 

 

 

Due to being informed of the blacklist available to halt the actions of OP mages, I have to change my opinion. Ski often speaks from the perspective of your general RPer and I have to agree with him. Restriction is not as great in action as it is on paper. Reorganizing and adding a title to specific schools of magic. That's what's up.

 

So what does that make me then, an atypical RPer? :P The object of this reorganisation is not to stop OP mages (you can't actually stop people powergaming with RP restrictions, because powergaming in magic is RPing outside of magical restrictions), but to a) Make being a non-masterful mage a viable adn attractive option, b) remove the swathes of superfluous subtypes and moulding them into 'schools' (basically big subtypes based on themes),  c) make finding magic teachers easier, d) make learning magic more convenient. The blacklist doesn't currently help the things I'm trying to abate, you see!

 

And also, who says these 'restrictions' won't work as well as it does on paper? I have no evidence to suggest they won't yet! Do you? Are you holding out on me, Solitare? You best not be holdin', sucker...

 

The thing is, there are already characters who are really good at multiple things. Good enough to fall under what you would probably classify as "the best." Having more skilled magics doesn't make your character more powerful, just as a warrior skilled with multiple weapons isn't more powerful. It just allows you to be more diverse, more interesting, more of what you want. Sure, we've got an over-saturation of super boss ass master wizards/swordsmen/bowmen (well not really that last one), but eliminating their versatility won't stop their general existence, which is the root of the "problem."

 

I completely understand that many characters are excellent in multiple schools, and this will disrupt current RP. My main character is highly skilled in electrical evocation and transfiguration, mid-skilled in fire evocation and conjuration, and low-skilled in illusion. And I disagree that it doesn't make characters more powerful, because it does. They can react to more problems with a greater array of utilities. My character can react to direct attacks with fire and lightning, conjure animals to murder things and/or set off traps, enchant things, transmute objects, ward against magics he doesn't like, and if all else fails, make people feel there is a spider on their neck, or something. He's -too- versatile, and there is less creativity, less cooperation, and less interest. Magically, he's essentially got all bases covered. This is the kind of thing I want to stop. To use another example, a master swordsman who is also a master bowman can deal with most violent obstructions. But with magic, my character can deal with any obstruction. There is a point where magic stops being a power used to interact with the environment, and becomes super-powers.

 

And I disagree. Eliminating their versatility will literally stop their existence. Because they literally can't be that anymore (without maybe being put on a blacklist, I guess).

 

 

I don't understand how there isn't already categories for Arcane Magics. There is. Personally I would place Conjuration under "Evocation" as all the same rules apply which means there is 3. Alteration, Evocation, Illusion.

 

 

There is many pages of which I read the first and last, so could you maybe explain how this makes any difference?

 

If its just about becoming more "masterful" of certain branches, or if it is purely roleplay type things, I love it. But it doesn't need to come into contact with the OOC organisation in any way. You can define what a sorcerer is, and what a wizard is. Your explanations are similar to my own mindsets and I referred to "mages" as sorcerers on several occasions to be more specific. But its IC terminology which belongs in an IC situation only.

Equally I think "warlock" needs to be a more common term for someone who has a natural affinity to magic from birth (ie has done little to study it but just "does" it). But these are IC names and have no effect on the OOC structure of magic. I believe Arcane to be the simplest of all magic types to understand in their current structure.

If any divergence one might branch the magics of the mind together (mental, cognitism, telepathy) and then slot the remainders in to similar categories, but then what more does that achieve?

 

The OOC organisation is literally what it is: OOC organisation. Things need to have rules, positives, negatives, and consequences. It does need to be OOC organised so stuff works the way it's supposed to work. But what exactly is it you have a problem with, here? If it's the names, you can call them whatever you like IC. I've never called a fire-evocationist a 'fire-evoker' once.

You can look to previous answers as to what I feel it will achieve (I don't want to cover previous ground too much, it gets a little tedious. Sorry if I come off as prickly. I'm not trying to be).

 

I hope this answers your questions to some degree of satisfaction! And if not, ask them again, this time using an angrier font! And written out more clearly I guess. That might help too. :P

[ChonGojDragonski 317]

That is, in fact, never how magic has worked. I don't know your basis for this statement, but unless there are explicit roleplay restrictions for the specific type of magic in question, dipping into multiple archtypes is fine.

Notice how I said SHOULD! Be like. That implies it wasn't previously like that despite the fact that it should've been. Great post though. 7.5/10 would read again.