Discussion on Aurum Testing

[ScreamingDingo 16990]

spook MAs and CAs deserve no rights and TSA security should be mandatory to ensure they quit and stop playing their characters and we can have normal, mundane rp again.

[Nectorist 7422]

None of this would have happened if Attack on Titan didn't have multiple scenes of people slicing open their hands and shrugging it off, which has served as the inspiration for characters casually doing that without showing any pain. It's happened to me irl! It hurts! You can't close your hand for weeks afterwards!

[greisn 96]

battle of wits

[Wand 932]

What I'll mention at least from having been around long enough to see aurum nerfed and unnerfed and renerfed, it's been nerfed in the past for people using gold rings/simple jewelry to touch Darkspawn and test them that way, and aurum lines on city gates became so constant at one point it was nerfed to let Darkspawn walk past it, save the occasional ghost. When that wasn't enough, people took out aurum weapons and did shallow cuts on anyone with a CA in their card, or were well known enough CA players - so now we see judgement calls about deeper cuts being mandated

Which at that point - a deep cut is going to hurt anyone, you're slicing into flesh

Having alternative weaknesses really doesn't help when those get quickly metagamed, and I doubt it's fun on the CA's part to look like they're being treated to a nice RP only to get baited out and have the guards called on them seconds later so someone can get a trophy

Hell, long time ago holy magic was nerfed for a bit to make the spells affect everyone, not just Dark CA players - to stop people from firing holy fire into a crowd to only target Darkspawn in their disguises (I suppose that'd be like if a Templar just pulled out a weapon and tried to use Furious Flame to Darkspawn test, which, no, they shouldn't be doing that, since it's a combat spell only) - Soon after that came the Lore Games.

just seems like it's very all or nothing with testing, and it's fun for no one with how it's used. It's necessary to have the weaknesses so that way you don't have to call an MA/CA holder to deal with the other one all the time (Kind of turns into just watching a cutscene and that's no fun for the non-magic user), but also silly I'm sure to see every guard on the server carrying aurum, salt, fire - telling you to stick your hand somewhere along with giving them name, race, residence, etcetera.

[Lirinya 2646]

Aurum testing feels like a cheap way to expose someone, imo.

 

While I do think there should be a method to do so, it should be limited to a sense that players who play these types of characters can play them to a fuller extent.

 

It should be just as fun to play an inquisitor who goes around, idk, vampire hunting as a vampire who sneaks into cities who avoids detection, because these inquisitors aren't around to do the test. (within their redlines idk the rules of vamps).

 

Making it something a little more difficult to get ahold of than just aurum testing could also potentially limit this whole "I got tested because of OOC suspicions" stuff.

 

Something limited to a 'group' or 'class' or 'profession' (you know what i mean, like Alchemy for instance) could create a whole new type of RP where people are literally ghost/vamp/darkspawn hunters because being that type of character gives you access to a darkspawn test.

 

((I'll footnote this but I don't actually know if any MA's/FA's have this already. I don't play any.))

[Epicethan4 271]

I don’t see aurum and salt testing much, but I believe the current rules are just bad game-design either way.

 

Even if testing was super-rare, it’s still too damn easy. One cut, one salting, done. The thing is, this is super easy to fix.

You can either make it harder or more costly for people to test by making the testing ritual involve a rare alchemical ingredient, thus making it so that those who want to test actually need to be strategic on whom they test in order to save resources (or create some paladin or Templar spell that can only be used once or twice a week in order to test darkspawn)

 

Alternatively, you could make the testing weaker by creating certain potions that enhance immunity to small cuts of aurum and salt, which relies on the darkspawn strategically having to acquire certain herbs or spells and conserve their resources in order to evade testing.)

 

These alternatives seem a lot more fun to me, requiring player strategy and intelligence, whilst balancing things out. 

[Carson 936]

14 hours ago, rukio said:

I have spent hours/days hunting people down and the moment they have seen me and gotten away, even ten minutes later, they have a new disguise. Alchemy is cool and all but my god. When you can escape all consequence with transformations that are CA based or alchemy based it just makes for less dynamic RP.  I say this as someone whose character's appearance changed via alchemy. (once). 

My mystic had some incredible RP with the lectors  (@Islamadon @femurlordyou guys were ***** amazing) where they interviewed her at length her ties to some less than savory organizations, and because she was telling the truth and they could corroborate it without her conspiring with the other people to make the story line up, she was allowed to repent and thus is no longer a target. I mean, she still is a mystic, but she has not been caught and does not also look the part of one. I don’t think they discovered whether or not she was a mystic at the time, but it’s irrelevant to the point I’m making.

 

Being uncovered and caught, when done in good faith and with interesting RP, can be fun for both sides. I had a blast RPing with the lectors and going through the journey of repentance as a medic. They still do not hunt my character down because she has not shown any further evidence of being a darkspawn, even if they OOCly know she is one. They could have just killed her, but what actual fun would that be? The route the lectors took was far more interesting for both parties.

 

thank u guys u are the best.

 

also, she has kept the same name and the same appearance the whole time, and it’s been no issue.

[Ibn Khaldun 7729]

Instead of arbitrarily trying to get there is a tell, I will utilize it to determine x is y vs. its not fair that we have to have a tell so you'd know I am y! decided, I am curious if we can come up with a solution for at least future or rewritten CAs to not have such widely known identifying markers/tells.

 

Would it not make sense that whenever a new CA is introduced or rewritten, the redlines be hidden and ONLY exposed to Lore Team? And, a "contractual"/mutually agreed term of being on the Lore Team is that you do not play characters who even try to guess at a CA's weakness to preserve that information and leave it up to players to experiment and try to determine the redline/tell that helps identify that Y is Y?

[satinkira 5920]

53 minutes ago, Ibn Khaldun said:

Would it not make sense that whenever a new CA is introduced or rewritten, the redlines be hidden and ONLY exposed to Lore Team? And, a "contractual"/mutually agreed term of being on the Lore Team is that you do not play characters who even try to guess at a CA's weakness to preserve that information and leave it up to players to experiment and try to determine the redline/tell that helps identify that Y is Y?

 

In an ideal world, perhaps, but this wouldn't work in practicality because it means that no-one save the spook and LT can truly know if the darkspawn is powergaming or breaking redlines/lore. Since LT can't always be present for interactions and players would be far more inclined to make an /sreq 'I think x player is abusing lore for their CA', it'd make things far more lengthy, vastly increase the number of /sreq tickets about powergaming and lead to a lot of lore abuse.

[Borin 5259]

I don't rlly see anything wrong w mass testing. Usually it only happens 1. When there's been an incident or something and the Canonist Church starts up a little inquisitioning or 2. When certain groups are a-hunting. If you're a spook just... be more careful. Try harder. If you know that there's been a thing that would encourage groups like the Church to start mass testing people, don't go places you know you might get tested! It's not hard to know when the chance of mass testing is increased!

I do think the method of testing should be made more difficult to get and perhaps RP-item-ised if you want to stop it being as corny or 'easy', as opposed to making it so that you have to grievously wound every single person to do it. That's silly.

[PrimnyaQuorum 1036]

53 minutes ago, Borin said:

I don't rlly see anything wrong w mass testing. Usually it only happens 1. When there's been an incident or something and the Canonist Church starts up a little inquisitioning or 2. When certain groups are a-hunting. If you're a spook just... be more careful. Try harder. If you know that there's been a thing that would encourage groups like the Church to start mass testing people, don't go places you know you might get tested! It's not hard to know when the chance of mass testing is increased!

 

I remember a report recently where someone got tested after SS'ing in to a hub pillar from CT, so I don't really think "Don't want to get tested? Don't go to X place!" is a solid idea. People will just bandit the roads and subject others to "random" testing and take the refusal to incur a serious wound at random as a offense. It should be difficult, and resourcing consuming - not impossible - for the average guy to darkspawn test.

 

56 minutes ago, Borin said:

I do think the method of testing should be made more difficult to get and perhaps RP-item-ised if you want to stop it being as corny or 'easy', as opposed to making it so that you have to grievously wound every single person to do it. That's silly.

Why not both? There are other ways to expose people with Dark MAs and CAs beyond a simple gate test, in the same vein they're encouraged to enter places in means that avoid the gate test (which IS a form of mass testing, let's not pretend it isn't - Unwillingly's said it much better). The test should cost resources, and not be something that can just be one and done ignored in character. The only real arguement I see again the test incurring a severe wound is that people who do minimal "Please submit or we will kill you *produces infinitely clean aurum blade and salt" will now have to put in effort. Perhaps even do some roleplay. 

[ReveredOwl 5331]

18 hours ago, Agy said:

You have been saying this a bunch across many different parts of the forum....And honestly what do you feel should be happening to begin with? Like should a dark CA, something that is entirely permanent and irreversible and takes irl months of rigorous RP to attain, be pretty much gutted in its entirety if one person manages to expose them?

 

Should Darkspawn not have said replaceable disguises, would lead to that in the event of them getting exposed they might as well be condemning said End-Game CA character to being shelved or just PKed because from that point on there's no interaction outside their lair other than being a CRP machines as people have already said many times to this.

They should be limited to one disguise, if they get discovered in their diisguise then that is on them. The same can apply to everybody, for example: a knight could work up the ranks and plots treason, he gets discovered and executed for it, how is it fair and reasonable that they could change all of their physical features and looks to repeat it all over again, every time they get discovered? This is the same situation but reversed as if a dark CA is discovered attacking somebody in their disguise, they can change their disguise to do it all over again, every time, this is simply not fair, actions have consequences

[Sarven 1716]

Godbless Aurum Testing, simple as

[Cheese 2307]

On 1/27/2024 at 12:56 PM, PrimnyaQuorum said:

I'll throw my two cents out, though I am not someone who plays a Dark MA/CA-

 

That Aurum is a open material and salt is seemingly in unending supply - Testing RP, in my opinion, has been boiled down to a joke.

 

Does your character not want to deal with a wound that will be painful and require stitches, at least - nevermind the risk of infections transferred for using a unclean blade and rubbing salt into a wound with unclean hands? You're a darkspawn and need to be instantly killed. Not in My OOC community!

 

There should be tests for darkspawn, but they should not be easily preformed and done by open noded and infinitely available resources. Testing should have a cost that isn't easily replenished. 

 

You can't also ignore "Random" Darkspawn testing. 

Additionally to this, there are a hell of a lot of nerve endings in the palm of your hand. Very dangerous.

I've also noticed a lot of spook tests revolve around incorrect metagaming. God forbid a character is pale, goth, or both. I've seen people stalk the forums and view dark MA,CA,FA, or TAs to know which persona holds it. There was a time when Haelun'or posted an article with metagamed (false) evidence of characters being darkspawn, and even though it was taken down at request, paladins still showed up and held my character hostage with the same taken down evidence as grounds that my character was darkspawn (which she wasn't lol).

 

All and all, I agree with most people when they say aurum testing itself isn't bad, it's just being abused and used lazily

[Rebellionlife 359]

3 hours ago, ReveredOwl said:

They should be limited to one disguise, if they get discovered in their diisguise then that is on them. The same can apply to everybody, for example: a knight could work up the ranks and plots treason, he gets discovered and executed for it, how is it fair and reasonable that they could change all of their physical features and looks to repeat it all over again, every time they get discovered? This is the same situation but reversed as if a dark CA is discovered attacking somebody in their disguise, they can change their disguise to do it all over again, every time, this is simply not fair, actions have consequences

 

A knight who gets randomly tested lets say and gets salt in his blood wont boil compared to a vampire spook who is trying to plot treason. THATs the problem I think people are discussing. The consequences for being found in your disguise is that its useless and you lose ALL your time plotting and scheming. Death isn't a consequence for most darkspawn TIME is. You waste SO much time scheming to give some nation or group a HUGE backstabbing plot or some awesome epic story but random testing could ruin this quickly. Im not saying testing shouldn't happen, it makes sense. I like many people here commenting just wish it wasn't so readily available. Like cheese said with the nerves it's a very painful and dangerous process. Maybe only doctors doing it or you need a certain rare item or a potion for the spook to resist test would be a good system to have? I don't know but I don't like people thinking disguises just are the obvious fix for this cause its not.