the case for banning homophobia

[Rigorous 1548]

11 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

where on earth did I do that

 

 

I'm of the belief that dynamism can take place without reference to real world prejudices; I've read plenty of fine stories that don't have a hint of racism nor homophobia. That isn't because they're whitewashed to be happy and fluffy - to be sure, brutal, villanous and terrible things can and should still happen - but instead, they deal with the fantastical and the medieval whilst simultaneously avoiding topics without worth.

I echo your point about communication. I echo your point reporting it when it comes along, but I simply disagree about the worth these niches of RP provide in contrast to the potential damage and usual uninteresting nature of them

 

 

A character of mine is currently attempting to reform the Church, but they've not in the matter of gay rights - and to be honest the Pontiff saying mid-diplomacy 'sorry I can't continue people are screaming at me on Discord' made me lose all faith in any sort of roleplay-first mindset the Church may claim to have. Blanket-banning is by no means my first instinct (and has never been, I would add) when it comes to matters akin to this

 

It's not a question of "worth" or "value". It's a question of how many times must I legit just listen to people going on the forums and whining incessantly about things. Somebody called my friend gay as a slur IRP and we 2v3'd and killed them all. Genuinely none of you people are intellectuals, if you go outside, you're gonna find the world is filled with these themes. Oppression, financial instability, personal insecurity, all of these things are net negatives, and character-building revolves around all of these things. There is no reason that people should not be allowed to role-play being negatively impacted by societal factors that are unfair, such as stereotyping and preconceived judgments, so long as it makes sense for the setting, and it is done with credibility and respect on a OOC level.

If people want to destroy homophobia, they should revolt against the Pontiff instead of whining incessantly on the forums about how much they "loathe the OOC Church". Make your own Church then. Wanna know why they don't? Because they know they'll get Coalition'd by pro-Church elements and these countries don't have militaries or religious institutions strong enough on their own. It's way easier to make a shitty Derfey post on the forums detailing the institutional wrongs of things within your control than it is to log on and RP.

That's my issue with you people, whether it's the woke-scolding moral grandstanders (eughhh) or the pious-based ultra giga-chad (not really) pro-catholic elements (losers LOL).

 

Log onto the server - make something and include people in more RP! I promise you it's much better than whatever the **** this is.

 

People are legitimately brain-broken by the OOC institutions on this server and it's so sad.

[SethWolf 1391]

3 hours ago, satinkira said:

I think it’s important to look at this through the parental lens, too. Would you let your thirteen year old son join the server and start pretending to be homophobic with a bunch of strangers? I think not (at least I hope not).

 

 

Probably not, but I also wouldn't be too keen on them romance roleplaying with strangers twice their age, either. Abolish romance roleplay entirely. Build stories, not bathhouses.

[Narthok 9213]

1 hour ago, satinkira said:

not being homophobic is not the same thing as having the same politics as burger king

[satinkira 5921]

12 minutes ago, Rigorous said:

 

It's not a question of "worth" or "value". It's a question of how many times must I legit just listen to people going on the forums and whining incessantly about things. Somebody called my friend gay as a slur IRP and we 2v3'd and killed them all. Genuinely none of you people are intellectuals, if you go outside, you're gonna find the world is filled with these themes. Oppression, financial instability, personal insecurity, all of these things are net negatives, and character-building revolves around all of these things. There is no reason that people should not be allowed to role-play being negatively impacted by societal factors that are unfair, such as stereotyping and preconceived judgments, so long as it makes sense for the setting, and it is done with credibility and respect on a OOC level.

If people want to destroy homophobia, they should revolt against the Pontiff instead of whining incessantly on the forums about how much they "loathe the OOC Church". Make your own Church then. Wanna know why they don't? Because they know they'll get Coalition by pro-Church elements and these countries don't have militaries or religious institutions strong enough on their own. It's way easier to make a shitty Derfey post on the forums detailing the institutional wrongs of things within your control than it is to log on and RP.

That's my issue with you people, whether it's the woke-scolding moral grandstanders (eughhh) or the pious-based ultra giga-chad (not really) pro-catholic elements (losers LOL).

 

Log onto the server - make something and include people in more RP! I promise you it's much better than whatever the **** this is.

 

People are legitimately brain-broken by the OOC institutions on this server and it's so sad.

 

wow I thought the world was sparkles and rainbows actually

 

I disagree with you (again) on your presumption that people can't call for change on the forums AND log on and RP. You've no clue what I do with my personas nor how I spend my IRL time, but you somehow managed to incorrectly assume and state both; as if people who disagree with you are, by default, and damned to be nolifers or OOC schemers. I'm engaging in plenty of RP; I'm very satisfied with how the narratives of my characters, Serwa and Yandel (Gholug has only just gotten going) are progressing, and I'm having a lot of fun with them. Hopefully, with Serwa especially, something will be made; I can't guarantee it, but that's the best thing about roleplay, nothing is guaranteed. I would urge you to comprehend and grasp that people can live a rich and fulfilling life whilst roleplaying and engaging in things you dislike (forum posting! eeguh). 

 

I know you're a smart guy, and I genuinely don't disagree with many of the sentiments you express, but you just gotta not be so rude because it devalues what you and just makes you so insanely wrong (he doesnt know about the stone chapel, nor tree gandalf)

 

3 minutes ago, Narthok said:

 

You seem to have missed out the very first paragraph of what I wrote

 

 

your brainrot of 'people who do weird progressive things like want rp homophobia banned must be WOKE' is so bizarre for such a usually sensible person 

 

in any case I am going to bed chaps its late

 

[Jentos 6881]

what if I want to rp as an ultra conservative Hungarian politician who claims to hate gays but fucks elven twinks (@Onnensr) behind closed doors

[ydegirl 1757]

i think unwillingly's comment rlly sums it up nicely. i dont think homophobia rp should be banned but i do think it should be more creative than just "gay ppl bad bc bible says so" lol its uncreative and unoriginal.

 

anyways thats my monthly discourse, blessed be!!

3 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

homophobia on LOTC is often just the same regurgitated talking points queer people hear every day. we generally frown upon just being textbook racist towards farfolk characters, so if we draw the line at being racist towards one IRL minority group, why are we not consistent and drawing the line at being homophobic towards another IRL minority group

 

[Rigorous 1548]

6 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

wow I thought the world was sparkles and rainbows actually

 

I disagree with you (again) on your presumption that people can't call for change on the forums AND log on and RP. You've no clue what I do with my personas nor how I spend my IRL time, but you somehow managed to incorrectly assume and state both; as if people who disagree with you are, by default, and damned to be nolifers or OOC schemers. I'm engaging in plenty of RP; I'm very satisfied with how the narratives of my characters, Serwa and Yandel (Gholug has only just gotten going) are progressing, and I'm having a lot of fun with them. Hopefully, with Serwa especially, something will be made; I can't guarantee it, but that's the best thing about roleplay, nothing is guaranteed. I would urge you to comprehend and grasp that people can live a rich and fulfilling life whilst roleplaying and engaging in things you dislike (forum posting! eeguh). 

 

I know you're a smart guy, and I genuinely don't disagree with many of the sentiments you express, but you just gotta not be so rude because it devalues what you and just makes you so insanely wrong (he doesnt know about the stone chapel, nor tree gandalf)

 

 

You seem to have missed out the very first paragraph of what I wrote

 

 

your brainrot of 'people who do weird progressive things like want rp homophobia banned must be WOKE' is so bizarre for such a usually sensible person 

 

in any case I am going to bed chaps its late

 

 

You historically write these threads like some kind of abominable epidemic of complaints about things, all the while you say you care about RP, while refusing to be the change on the server you wish to see. It's legitimately just the reality of the current situation that half of the issues described on this thread could have been credibly solved by people having a backbone and role-playing. Have a Church Schism, institute public reforms devaluing homophobia in your nations, and actively refuse the power structures that reinforce values that are contrary to your own. Destroy them utterly.

Unwilling to do that? Well, don't be shocked when people stoop to your level on a public thread and paint broad generalizations, because nothing of value is accomplished by these threads outside of a handful of exceptions. It's always just this obscene activity of people whining and complaining about whether or not they're being suppressed or not.

 

LoTC is no place for Arm Chair Culture Critics. I don't care if you have a conservative background. I don't care what "logic" you purport is behind this strange belief you have that a forum thread will accomplish this goal, meanwhile the things you're complaining about are already categorically banable offenses.

 

You don't want to be seen as somebody who is acting in bad faith? Then don't do things that suggest you're acting in bad faith. The fact this has 70+ replies speaks to the hot-button issue of this topic. It has not changed that the culture on the server is dominated by out-of-character and Discord messages. It does not change the legitimate hypocrisy I see espoused in this destitute hellscape where people are more likely to lodge a complaint with the Federal Bureau of Bullshit Authorities instead of writing a character post, narrative, or character card. That's the new culture on this server and it must be absolutely burned away, and hopefully we get a generation of newer players soon who are concerned with good-faith RP practices and not endless sub-tweeting that platforms the craziest, most morally destitute people on this server.

 

 

[Caravaggio 145]

If homophobia is essential to your character's RP or culture, you may need to re-evaluate your life choices. Stuff gets shelved all the time on the server and can no longer be RP'd, demolishing a decade's worth of lore and culture (Looking at you STs, I will never forgive you over elementalism). That said, I think any RP or OOC discussion of sexual activity or a character's genitals should not be acceptable conduct on the server. It does nothing but encourage unsafe behavior around individuals who may be minors. We're a server that permits 13 year olds to play - they should not be exposed to sexual activity of any kind, period, nor should they run the risk of being exposed to it due to a server culture that seems to think it's OK to openly have discussions surrounding this stuff. 

[ibraheemc2000 2574]

I don't agree with hostility oocly, But I disagree on banning such roleplay wise.

Just because they roleplay somthing does not mean that is what they believe IRL.

I have had many people play my kids, and they were oocly gay, and were full heartly fine with any anti gay rp.

Banning it will not solve anything for roleplay. Roleplay should encourage conflict, and I do understand there is harassment oocly and thats fucked up, and I am sorry if you go through that, though we should not ban any type of roleplay, Besides ERP.

[Malins Welcome 739]

ban characters from having any perspective that predates 2010

[saint swag 2447]

another 80+ reply stacked thread of almost entirely lukewarm nothing !

 

[Netphreak 449]

RP is RP bro. No matter the prejudice, racism, homophobia, misandry, misogynism, hatred of blind people. 

 

People.. Understand, YOU are the ones who find offense to something and react to it. If RP makes you uncomfortable, leave it or get a safety team member.. 

 

If you have evidence that someone is bleeding OOC ideology into IC; and you know for a certainty without a shadow of a doubt that they are RP'ing based on a heavy sense of OOC judgement of things.. Then get logs, report it. Bringing OOC into IC is against the rules anyway. 

[wolfdwg 1497]

1 hour ago, satinkira said:

 

A character of mine is currently attempting to reform the Church, but they've not in the matter of gay rights - and to be honest the Pontiff saying mid-diplomacy 'sorry I can't continue people are screaming at me on Discord' made me lose all faith in any sort of roleplay-first mindset the Church may claim to have. Blanket-banning is by no means my first instinct (and has never been, I would add) when it comes to matters akin to this

Simply leaving it to moderation to investigate and determine if you are being targeted oocly is not, blanket-banning.

 

As for the rp situation, why adhere to reform? Take action and call for schism? You’d likely have the backing of 4 Nations? Nothing says you have to listen to these people and adhere to their personal biases, you owe them nothing. My advice is to take risks if your character fundamentally disagrees with something. It may work it may not. But outright banning referrals to homophobia in roleplay via ooc methods is just not how you enact change.

[creamynoteblock 2426]

the redditposting epidemic has plagued our forums for far too long

[monkeypoacher 6993]

From a pure marketing standpoint I cannot imagine advertising to the intersection of minecraft and d&d/fantasy roleplaying (both demos that skew younger and more likely to be LGBTQ+ accepting) and deciding to keep the gate for people who can tolerate simulated discrimination against gay characters. It doesn't make sense from the top down.